So, how is EQ2?

[unclebong]

It does however take a committment, which is why even now, when I'm what would be considered a "casual player" I can understand and respect the people who do put that amount of time and energy into the game.

There's a mighty big differnce between commitment and large amounts of free time to burn. Big difference. The implemetation of EverQuest turned that "commitment" into a test of who could sit on their butt the longest, nothing more.

ability to partake in them doesn't change the fact that they are there.

I think its that ability to partake in them point that rubs a lot of folks the wrong way. So fucking what that they do exist. When it becomes something that only the people with large chunks of free time (a rarity in the real world we all actually have to live in) then there is a problem.

So some folks actually get to put the time in and experience the programming/scripts that are so much fun while other do not get to experience them. Talk about an artifical limit. When time is the only factor that seperates those who can play well from those who actually get to play you end up with EQ. It has enjoyed the top spot for a long time because no one has come along and implemented the same style of game any better than EQ did.

Well, WoW did it. While the comparison between the 2 games themselves may be apples and oranges, the thrill one experiences is the same despite what some of the more uber arrogant types might have you believe. And thats why we play (usually), for the thrill. I doubt very seriously that WoW will become EQ for psycho's when you pretty much had to be psycho to floursih in EQ. Of course my definition of psycho probably varies from that of Frodlin's. I call sitting on your ass not having fun while you farm farm farm to get gear and flags for peeps that, if they are forced to choose, will leave your ass behind in a heartbeat in order to "progress" themselves pretty damn psycho.

Good luck catching up to them if you have any break in your playtime schedule due to circumstances outside the game. Yes, those factors count too. If you dont believe that, you are burying your own head up your own ass. To me thats the fatal flaw in EQ's "vision" Its counter productive to actually help your friends catch up to where you are when they fall behind. Helping your fellow playmates keep up to the point where they can play with you even semi-productively is is a MAJOR part of teamwork. Never forget that.

It amuses me to no end that the hardiest of the "hardcore" dismiss WoW as too easy when infact leveling in WoW is very much on par with modern day EQ.

EDIT: it also amuses me that SoE appears to be catching on to this beef with content being cockblocked and are dumbing the game down stay in business. That to me spells it out loud and clear how well the original "vision" really turned out to be just another cool idea that in the end is unable to last.

[Raaj]

There's a mighty big differnce between commitment and large amounts of free time to burn. Big difference.

Explain the "big difference" between putting your free-time into EQ, and committing your free-time to eq, please.

I fully understand that many events are not simply "available" to everyone. That's the game of EverQuest, it's how the game is. If it doesn't suit you, by all means move on -- but don't sit here and claim that there are no creative events in Everquest, because that's completely false.

[unclebong]

Explain the "big difference" between putting your free-time into EQ, and committing your free-time to eq, please.

I can remain committed to a game, my friends, and my own personal progress while not logged into the game. I can study it, encounters, classes, quests, etc. My lack of free game time does not lessen my commitment. It just means I must work harder outside of the game so that I may enjoy it when I do actually have time to log in and play. Outside research is a part of the EQ experience. Otherwise, would this board even be here? I think not. Its not like the Warrior class was ever that hard to play in and of itself.

Having time to be logged in does NOT make you a committed player by itself. However, in EQ, having time to be logged in has become the primary requirment needed to flourish. For the most part thats fine with me, thats the "vision" What isnt fine is that only those who meet the large in game playtime commitment are allowed to benifit from new developments in encounter technology. That's not a vision, thats a carrot. A gimmick as Haass likes to call it.

That's the game of EverQuest, it's how the game is. If it doesn't suit you, by all means move on

I have.

but don't sit here and claim that there are no creative events in EverQuest, because that's completely false.

I'm not, nor have I.

I am saying that the majorty of this creativity is available only to the minorty with the most free time to commit.

Unless they've added something since the finall stress test of WoW that put some of this creativity in an area that you didnt have to be max level, 100+ aa, and best baz/ldon gear you can obtain inorder to get past the first 5 mobs in the zone then things are the same as they were when I stopped playing. What stopped them from making a level 20 encounters that contains all this nifty scripting, questing, lore, and creativity that everyone enjoys so much?

[Raaj]

Commitment is commitment. Playing at the endgame takes it, anyone who's done it for any length of time would agree. I can't count the number of sleepless nights, turned down dates, or skipped classes I've had since EQ was released, but I'd call it commitment Regardless, it's arguing semantics and I'm certain you understand what I originally meant by it.

I'm in agreement that there should be some creative things to do for all level ranges, and I was under the impression there were at least a few added with the recent expansion(s). I'm not of that level range though, so I'll defer that to someone who knows what they're talking about. They may not be of the same calibre or number unfortunately, however it does make sense for there to be more of these types of encounters as you progress farther into the game. I would be very surprised if the design of WoW at the high end doesn't turn out similar. Once your players have achieved the maximum level, the only thing left for them is content. There's plenty of lower level content in EverQuest which in todays game (perhaps not the original pre-SoE EQ) is viewed as a means to an end (the later stages of the game). I'm not simply referring to raid content here, as the MPG trials are one group scripted encounters, just as an example.

Whether or not it's good game design is a totally different story. I tend to think they've taken it to the extreme in that instead of expanding on things to do, they expanded on things to obtain which puts the newer player farther and farther behind. It's what will eventually do the most harm to the game.

And unclebong: You specifically didn't state that there wasn't any creativity, but it's been alluded to throughout the thread. If what was meant is that there's very little "open" creative scripting, again that's a seperate issue. The lore is there, but again since players go through those levels toward the goal of 70 instead of enjoying the game, much of it isn't ever seen anymore.

[unclebong]

I think we're seein eye to eye here Raaj =)

[Haass]

Originally Posted by Raaj

I play WoW, so I have no opposition towards you enjoying the game. My point was simply that these creative events you're seeking *do* exist in EQ. Your ability to partake in them doesn't change the fact that they are there.

If there was an event that was the most fabulous design ever, but required you to be level 75 to participate in it, would it be a good event? Basically if I can't get there, then what exists in that "unknown" area doesn't mean shit to me..because I'll never see it no matter how good it is.

I have to ask though as you seem to have a lot of contempt for people who are in these uberguilds, is your opposition to them enjoying EQ due to you not progressing to the point where you could enjoy those same things?

I really don't have that much contempt for people playing the game. I have contempt for people with a fucking attitude about how much time they put into EQ and them touting how superior they are because of it. They're not superior, they're fucking slugs. Slugs with mountains of prime time to burn on EQ. That doesn't make you smart, it doesn't make your game good, and it doesn't make you any better than anyone else. That's what I have a problem with, and that's why I get into these discussions. Honestly, if you wanna play EQ 167 hours a week, that's fucking great. Way to get your money's worth. But don't come here and tell me that I wasn't putting enough fucking effort into EQ because all I ever saw was a carrot and never got anything for it.

Anyway, I do see it from your point of view. I haven't had a block of time to dedicate to raiding in quite awhile now. I log in and see the gripes you guys have and understand why you decided to leave, you just should try and understand why people decide to stay as well. EQ is not some horrible game, you played it for 5 years. It's just that you've found something that suits you better -- and contrary to popular belief multiple games can indeed coexist.

Like I said before..if you wanna stick around, that's fuckin great. I honestly think you're missing out if you're not playing WoW tho. It is indeed worth the 50 bucks, unlike some recent games (cough doom 3 cough). I just really have a hard time with some posters here (who have stayed out of this thread thankfully) who think they're just king of the mountain because everyone else had enough of Sony's bullshit and decided to take their money elsewhere. I've said it numerous times...if you didn't have the time to put into EQ that you do, and didn't have the guild that you do, you'd look at it in a different light...one of the neverending XP grind. That's not what I play games for.

[Gunnar]

Originally Posted by unclebong

implemetation of EverQuest turned that "commitment" into a test of who could sit on their butt the longest, nothing more.

I think its that ability to partake in them point that rubs a lot of folks the wrong way. So fucking what that they do exist. When it becomes something that only the people with large chunks of free time (a rarity in the real world we all actually have to live in) then there is a problem.

Its counter productive to actually help your friends catch up to where you are when they fall behind. Helping your fellow playmates keep up to the point where they can play with you even semi-productively is is a MAJOR part of teamwork. Never forget that.

1) There's more hehe.Stuff does get more challenging as you progress,at least for raiders,at least for us.There is a big difference being even dps #05 beastie in NTOV compared to Uqua.Never mind the tanks.I know that given the same gear we have now with our playing experience at the NTOV level we wouldn't have a chance in the god stuff.As we progressed from pog/kael on Stromm thru Time into GOD I've watched people(mostly myself hehe) learn to play and raid better.We're just a casual bunch of part time folks too.The tanks are night and day different tho.The biggest challenge tho is a socail one.Not surprising in this type of game.If we all(or a majority) just sat on our butts,never worked hard or tried to play hard we never would have gotten where we have.The commitment is more than just time,much more.

2)Yeah,I agree there are lots of flaws in content progression and itemization balance.We worked through stuff of on very minimal playtime tho.I averaged less than 20(many regular members average half that) hours a week.A very large portion was raiding.I work all night and kinda slept around raids.The fun part was watching/helping the guild progress.Feeling a part of something kewl.Since I've been gl/rl It's been a little less fun and more stressful.I'm not the best suited to leading an online video game team imo,but,stuff happens and its a great bunch of folks.

3)We have members who get sidetracked by real life all the time....or erk other games.They come back and gear up np.The fun part after all is the people.

New stuff is easy and fun to like.I don't know that the new games won't eventually see similar problems as players look to advance thru raid encounters.We'll see tho.Gawd,I hope the next games keep guilds smaller but immersive.I'd like free open worlds without lots of artificial lockouts.A game that doesn't involve more button mashing than EQ as well hehe.No lil gimicky flashing lights or other crass arcadish add ons.One with slow, solid progression and nicely scaled rewards.One that feels like a high fantasy RPG built to last.I loved EQ thru velious.I enjoyed POP even.GOD is very challenging raiding and OOW seems too easy rvr.To be honest our more hardcore folks enjoy raiding GOD quite a bit.For me it's almost too hard.Long raids without much room for error and little reward much of the time.Hats off to the folks who did it at 65 hehe.

PS.None of this makes raiders better than anybody else.It does mean they worked hard to stay together and help each other achieve kewl stuff tho.Thats a big part of what people can find special in EQ.If you missed out on that for whatever reason it's too bad.Don't knock it tho without having done it the full route.

[unclebong]

1) I do know it takes a lot more than just time to continute to progress. Please dont take my comments as an attempt to lessen your accomplisments or your guildmates, thats not really what I ment. I really am refering more to the need for time inorder to do anything more than the boring ass exp grind we've been doing for years.

That things become harder and more rewarding as you get higher in the game is exactly how I want it to be too.

2) having gone from the dying lowbie tank to MT to raid leader in the guilds I was in, I know what you mean. Hehe the game at that point becomes more an annoying logistical matter than a game, but hey thats the nature of the beast and I'm cool with that. And omfg did it feel great when everyone got it together and we got the beastie dead. After all, it only took one dumbass to ruin everyones night.

3) I cant count the number of folks I met on Karana who had stopped playing for a year and come back to find their guilds were gone or so far ahead they couldnt even zone into the same zones who did get left behind. Showing up decked out in Myrmidon's after a long break to find your guild is done farming Quarm pretty much meant you we're unable to catch up unless they put 60+ people to the task of catching you up. While I'm glad they finally are fixing that, its a day late and a dollar short. The friends they did have left in game usually were unable to stop raiding to help them out cause they'd get kicked from their guild for not showing up to raids. Thus it being counter productive.

I don't know that the new games won't eventually see similar problems as players look to advance thru raid encounters.

WoW will suffer from the same problems no doubt about it. Its the nature of this style of game and believe or not thats one of the things I do like about this kind of game. Only the groups that tough it out get the gold. As it should be.

PS.None of this makes raiders better than anybody else.It does mean they worked hard to stay together and help each other achieve kewl stuff tho.Thats a big part of what people can find special in EQ.If you missed out on that for whatever reason it's too bad.Don't knock it tho without having done it the full route.

Hehe its apparent folks think I never raided. Incorrect. I and my guildmates worked our asses off on the content we were doing just as hard as the top end raiders. No, I didnt miss out on that special EQ experience, even if I didnt see the EP's. I may not have experienced it to the extent you have, but that doesnt change the fact that I got it too.

I aint bashin the uber raider types. Mad props to all yall who were lucky enough and committed enough to do it.

I am bashing anyone who thinks they're xtra special because they've seen this creativty locked away behind content that requires the 60+ man force like they're the only ones entitled to a well done game. I'm bashing SoE for only putting their efforts into the mega raid force game and not doing anything for the folks who would rather not go that route.

And I'll save a lil bash for those folks who think you gotta do the 60 man raids to experience what EQ was all about. No, you did not have to believe it or not. All you really get with the bigger raids is a scaled up version of the same experience I think every last EQ player felt. But since the designers put the fun gaming (fuck loot, im talking gaming, the actual fights themselves) where only the big guilds could get to em, I wont bash too hard because in EQ you did have to do that.

[Brabble]

Originally Posted by Frodlin7th

What I'm getting at is that neither of you two morons know a damned thing about content in EQ or what's out there, so just do yourselves a favor and quit talking about EQ content unless you've actually tried some.

Originally Posted by Frodlin7th

No matter what excuses you can come up with for why you didn't experience it, the fact remains, you haven't experienced it, thus you are completely unqualified to talk about it.

I get up at 4:30, come to work, find out I'm a member of the unqualified moron club.

[Daeos]

You know what I love? People like Frodlin who talk down to everyone because he thinks he's God's gift to EQ.

Look son, I was probably killing Quarm before you were even taking screen shots of what's up Xegony's dress, you're not special... at all. I wouldn't even bring it up if you would quit talking down to everyone like you're the only one here who as experienced the high end game. How about you drop the bullshit 'holier than thou' attitude, no one cares how far into GoD or OoW you are, especially since half of the community already wised up and quit that shitty game.

Since you're so uber and conquered so much of the game, how about debating PoP scripting since EQ is so amazing and fun, or weren't you around for that?

I can tell you that I don't think anyone liked the flagging system or the fight scripting. It wasn't fun one fucking bit, the only thing driving anyone to play at all was the loot. You think I liked playing six hours (or even longer) strait to do all the earth rings just to spawn that asshole Arbiter everytime we had to flag some new recruits? You think Xegony was actually "fun" and the other three God's were fun? Was doing P1-3 (in PoTime, for the dullards who don't know what I'm refering to) every week for drops that no one in the guild needed every single week fun?

You "uber, omfg I'm raping GoD and OoW" people probably don't even have a fucking clue because by the time you were actually that far into the expansion your guild was spoon feeding you flags. Try learning that shit, and doing it repeatedly. It's not fun, it's not entertaining, it's not even hard. It's hours of sitting on your ass doing the same shit over and over again.

You know why no one has responses to your OoW/GoD questions? No one played that shit. For Sony to have items drop in GoD instances that were PoTime + quality within the first couple Tiers of the expansion made me feel like I wasted way too much time in PoP, and it wouldn't be so bad if I actually enjoyed some of it. Not only that, but for them to release yet another flagged expansion after the PoP shit-storm made me want to cry.

Atleast when I'm playing WoW I'm still amazed daily by the models, scripting and environments, I feel like I'm doing something, everytime I play. I can't remember anything about leveling in EQ, it was always just pull some shit, kill it, repeat, hell it was even worse everytime I made an alt. Most people can level atleast four chars to level 20 or so (which you would think is boring as hell right?) in WoW and still say "this is the funnest shit I've ever played" even though they just did the same thing four times.

I'm honestly suprised this thread is still going, but eh, whatever.

[Phantron]

I got to level 5 in WoW earlier than you, and back in my days things weren't so easy as you have it now.

Yeah right.

Just because you were once sort of uber in EQ doesn't mean you are now nor does it mean you are qualified to talk about what EQ currently IS.

Then again I guess you're one of those good old day guys who either think original EQ or Velious was the best EQ ever has to offer. Those are the guys who I think must be totally stupid to knowingly buy more expansions even if they 'knew it all along' that the original was the best. I mean, the rest of us presumably believe the new stuff will be, um, better than the old stuff. Apparently there are those who knew the new stuff sucks but is willing to waste time and money doing them citing some obscure excuses like friendship and loyalty.

You didn't make it to the current EQ endgame. Stop crying over it. It's not supposed to be a big deal, but you sure make it sound like it is having to remind people who it used to be. I believe in progress, and I have no interest in what it used to be like for you. And if you don't believe in progress, then I guess you must be stupid to buy new things while believing nothing can be better than what it was.

[Gunnar]

Well we played from the beginning on Stromm through to where we are now.Not far, just in Uqua and we clear Time routinely.We're casual players and not in any hurry.I was on almost every raid we ever did from pog/velious at level 55-60 on up.I did like the velious expansion a lot.it had the best gaming feel to me.For raiding tho the game got progressively harder with content flag mobs tending to stand out.Backflagging past the second go or so was seldom super fun,but,wth your guildies got flags and saw the new stuff weee.Fennin,Coirnav,Xegony and TRC were all great fights for us the first few times.Fennin went down almost too easy ,but,was still fun.Coirnav in our dps challenged state was very hard hehe.When we finally beat him the whole guild was euphoric.Rathe died first go(we were normally tank/cleric heavy),but, it was still challenging in its way.Xegony was a neat fight too,tho I never wanted to see rape spiders again.The first time we beat Quarm I felt better than any game ever made me feel before I think.At least in the last 25 years or so.Half the guild didnt't want to leave hehe.We all stood around POK after the script semi high...from just a game.Yeah,since then Quarm has become gimp for us.Level 70 and gear has made it a totally differant fight.It was very special at the time though.

Many of those raids required a strong input by a large part of the raid force when they were tough.GOD stuff is much more complex and less forgiving.I don't like the "feel" of GOD and OOW as much as the older expansions,but, they certainly are challenging to raid and interesting.People seem to want to hate EQ hehe.I didn't play it because there was nothing else.I played it because imo it was and is a great game.Not perfect by any means ,but, great all the same.We've had great times in EQ.Lots of folks have had untold hours of fun playing the game.Raiding(I've lead our raids since hitting Time and MT'd previously)certainly gets tougher as you progress.Too many are a little too long for my liking now,but, they are fun and challenging.I guess thats the price you pay for getting to that point in EQ hehe.High end POP and then GOD and OOW were designed with very efficient,hardworking guilds in mind.Kinda tough on casuals like us.Still some of the GOD stuff that we've done is very unforgiving of weak play by any raid member and require a lot of effort and focus.Even some Time encounters and Coirnav were pretty tough when we had low gear for the content.

So I'm not sure where some folks are coming from.Almost sounds like you played a different game.My wife and I have played through most of it into GOD in a linear fashion since Stromm opened.It's been a blast and it's easy to see how stuff gets tougher as you progress.Sure some flag mobs tend to be harder than easier encounters in the content they open/shrug only makes sense to me.It catches up fast hehe.There are social/logistical challenges that can make EQ seem like work at times.The players made this happen tho.It was an open world and folks found they did better in larger groups.That by routinely wacking mobs too hard to group they could progress a raid force to see and do tougher stuff.That led to harder encounters with better loot and so on.They do get harder to beat.They end up taking better tactics,better coordination and better average play throughout the raid.Of course doing anything trivial is easy for groups or raids.Thats why they call it trivial.

I'm not sure what the answers are to this in a new game.I certainly hope somone gets this stuff better than WOW or EQ2.I can see why folks like both games and you can certainly have fun with friends anywhere.They are not better games than EQ imo,just different.Hopefully, devs are sifting thru this stuff and someone builds a game that keeps the best parts of EQ while finding a way to better balance stuff like raiding size & impact,itemization,competition for spawns etc.I know lots of folks who are crossing their fingers hehe.

[Daeos]

Quit spewing fucking fallacies already.

I got to level 5 in WoW earlier than you, and back in my days things weren't so easy as you have it now.

Maybe if by level 5 you mean two level 35s, compared to someone who can not even tell me what his WoW experience is, that's a hell of a lot.

Just because you were once sort of uber in EQ doesn't mean you are now nor does it mean you are qualified to talk about what EQ currently IS.

Actually I don't think I was in a "casual guild" in four of my five years playing EQ. Since when is being in one of the only two guilds on the server to complete the current expansion "sort of uber". You don't know shit about how much time I invested into grinding out levels, doing AA, learning content and raiding, so don't act like you do.

Then again I guess you're one of those good old day guys who either think original EQ or Velious was the best EQ ever has to offer. Those are the guys who I think must be totally stupid to knowingly buy more expansions even if they 'knew it all along' that the original was the best. I mean, the rest of us presumably believe the new stuff will be, um, better than the old stuff. Apparently there are those who knew the new stuff sucks but is willing to waste time and money doing them citing some obscure excuses like friendship and loyalty.

I'm a power gamer, I care a lot about char improvement. Apparently you missed when I said "It wasn't fun one fucking bit, the only thing driving anyone to play at all was the loot". PoP was a revolutionary expansion, fuck everyone was drooling over 200+ hp items, but was it actually fun?

You didn't make it to the current EQ endgame. Stop crying over it. It's not supposed to be a big deal, but you sure make it sound like it is having to remind people who it used to be. I believe in progress, and I have no interest in what it used to be like for you. And if you don't believe in progress, then I guess you must be stupid to buy new things while believing nothing can be better than what it was.

Haha, that's hillarious, I guess it's hard to make it to the high end game when I don't play the game. What's your point? I guess by your logic I could just say "Oh shit Phantron, I'm better than you at (insert game) because I beat it and you don't play it!"

Yeah, I'm crying over not having to hit my assist key for eight hours a day to get a piece of loot every couple weeks. Your right, I don't know shit about the current EQ except the constant bitching about finding groups, guilds collapsing and shitty expansions. If the game is so great how come so many people are leaving it?

Phantron, you can't debate your way out of a fucking paper bag, maybe if you actually used some facts, it wouldn't be so obvious that you have very little experience in anything. So far your only argument in about six posts is "I'm uber now, you don't play EQ so you obviously failed, therefore WoW sucks" - That shit doesn't even make sense. I'm sure Uqua sure is a lot harder for you at level 70 than it was for me at level 65.

Funny, just keep dodging my arguments. You can't even tell me about your PoP experiences because you don't have any, even though the expansion was big for a good year or two - real hardcore, oldschool. It must be hard to get into "uber guilds" now that the population is so low that people were actually discussing server mergers.

(Too bad I had to re-type this whole reply since the internet went down sometime before I clicked on submit.)

[Haass]

You know what I love? People like Frodlin who talk down to everyone because he thinks he's God's gift to EQ.

Look son, I was probably killing Quarm before you were even taking screen shots of what's up Xegony's dress, you're not special... at all.

Alright dude, it's pretty clear after this quote that 1) you're a dumbass, and 2) you really don't know what you're talking about, in any game, and have no idea who has done what, so you're basically not qualified to speak on it.

This is the point where you step back and figure out if you have a point, or if you're arguing just to argue. I have a point, and I've explained it concisely in this thread. Your posts follow along the lines of "OMG I'M UBER" and pretty much don't have anything else to go along with it.

Frodlin deserves a lot of respect for who he is and what he's done in this community. That doesn't change the fact that he's wrong (hehe), but it's certainly not your place to say that you were farming Quarm while he was still in Air, when I'm fairly sure the opposite is true.

If you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it..it's plenty simple. No one is going to wonder where you are or what your opinion is on any particular matter if you don't have anything to contribute. Do I know what kind of crap goes on in GoD and OoW? Nope..and quite frankly I don't care. I know what I saw in EQ...5 years of the same boring crap. The only "events" that were ever different from any other auto attack AFK scramble were ones that were itemized with absolute garbage, and senseless to do. I play a game now where I don't have to spend 30+ hours a week with my 70 favorite people in order to do interesting things. And that's why SoE no longer gets my money. They dropped the ball on building their game around what someone with a life can accomplish. Everyone who had to drop EQ for their life will tell you the same thing.

[Daeos]

Gunnar man, it would be a lot easier to read your posts if you put a space after periods sir. It kinda all runs together =/

Actually Haas, your point is exactly the same as mine. Exactly. I dunno if you're like skimming my posts for shit to call me on, it just sounds like you're looking with a fight but we've basicly been saying the same shit in the EQ/WoW comparasin. I guess it's ironic how I agree with you and then you bag on me for it, doesn't that just mean you're contradicting yourself?

I don't have any beef with Frod, A) it was an example of going on with this thread, and B) was exagerating to prove a point. That point being that lots of people have done what these "uber" EQ players have done. I don't think I'm better than them, or anyone here, but I was proving a point.

I only know what people have done by what they have posted, and quite frankly all that has been is how uber they are now. I don't play the game, I'm not going to go looking up Magelos to prove shit, I don't care enough. I don't actually know where people were back in the day, but I can only assume if they're all like Phantron and won't just prove me wrong. What am I supposed to do when the guy won't even give facts but changes the subject everytime I reply to him, why do I even bother?

People can say whatever they want, you don't know shit about what I've gone through the past month as far as RL is concerned vs my WoW time, so don't act like you do and I'll stop making assumptions about EQ players pasts.

Actually I have a lot of points in my posts, I guess next time I'll just have to break it down for you.

Edit: Bleh, I'm a grammar whore.