Reworking Top Ten List

[Frodlin7th]

Hi guys,

It's time to revisit the warrior "Top Ten" list. This should be reviewed from time to time so that it no longer stales, but there's been some changes that have been made to the game which necessitates a total review. I'll list the current "top ten" list which was formulated in GoD, and ask that we review the items, to determine if some are old and need tossage and replacement considering all that's changed in OOW.

The current "Top Ten" list:

1. Taunt. Success rate, particularly the steep decline vs. Yellow/Red mobs, is too low and too unreliable (currently being evaluated), taunting when OOR causes taunt button to grey out (fix for this should be going on Test in mid-October)

Update: Moved to top of list. This is currently the most pressing issue with the warrior community. There is no other skill which has such a lousy scaling of the success rate based on mob level as taunt.

2. Re-Evaluate Epic 1.5/2.0 Effect (New)

Details and a discussion to follow.

3. Endurance Regen: We need endurance regen from Spells and/or items. Modrods should provide an endurance benefit equal to the mana benefit. Also, change + Endurance only augments to +Endurance regen. (currently being evaluated)
4. reimplement the ability to /disc to see the refresh timer on discs (currently being evaluated)

5. Re-Evaluate warrior disciplines. (New)

There's a few issues:

A. Endurance costs on all of the new discs is WAY too high

B. Aura of Runes negates the use of inherent proc right clicks. Please consider "suspending" them rather than dispelling them completely.

C. The level 70 discipline needs to be effective against even con and higher mobs. If it's not reasonable to make level 70+ mobs stunnable (and it's probably not reasonable), then change the effect to a dramatic defensive based damage shield (DD) effect, or a "defensive" hate inducing proc, or something along those lines. As it currently stands, there's not a whole lot of use for the discipline which SHOULD be our best.

D. Savage onslaught needs a longer timer or shorter refresh and a MUCH lower endurance upkeep.


6. Increase the effectiveness of duel wielding weapons (currently being evaluated)

7. Add a shield disc or shield usefulness (no change planned at this time) [possibly addressed in Omens - partially anyway]
The following are helpful suggestions as to what can be adjusted to shields to make them something desired. Above all, when it comes to shields, we want the option to use them for a noticeable benefit.

Adjust the effect of Furious Bash, to make it either a standard proc, or a percentage hate modifier. The concept isn't to make shields as good at aggro as dual wielding or using a 2 hand weapon, but to make them a viable option with some tangible benefit.

Add Shielding or block to shields

Warrior shields result in a larger DPS decrease than knight shields do based on the nature of knight weapons vs. warrior weapons. A warrior equipped shield should add a +damage modifier to his/her main hand weapon so that when using a shield, the DPS balance continues to exist.

Shields equippable by tanks should exceed dramatically the stats gained with an offhand weapon. 30AC and 50hp arent' enough benefit to the loss of aggro and damage that occurs when a shield is equipped

UPDATE: The real issues at this time is aggro generation comparatively with other classes who have this AA ability, who have taken dramatic strides toward tanking parity with us due to Omens launch and content, we take a much larger hit in aggro generation than others, as well as the availability of good main hand only weapons to make the shield AA useful for those without BBoB/Darkblade/Fleshbiter

8. Improve stun from kick/slam (currently being evaluated)

Update: Please advise the newest maximum stun level for kick/bash


9. Melee Focus Effects: The current level of melee foci are too limited. There are no mage summonned melee foci, and melee foci were not retroactively placed on older gear. The current list of foci is also too limited in what it acheives when compared with caster foci. (currently being evaluated)

10. balance bash damage to the weapon (currently being evaluated)

Note: This is likely to be merged with the shield issue next update

Much has changed over the last few weeks, thus it's time to review and redo.

My personal suggested issues would be:

- Shocking Defense: Either make the effect work on level 70+ mobs or give a different effect that does work on them.

- Endurance costs of OOW discs/Bazu Bellow.

Throw out some more, and let's see if we cant' whip this list into shape.

[bardeil]

I like your suggestions frodlin, and the list in general seems solid..

One thing I think we should consider is some variety of improved offensive capability. The current offensive discs have VERY long timers, and eat a ton of endurance. They're all but useless in a single group situation, and don't add much to a raid either. I'm not sure exactly what rog/monk discs look like, but they seem to have a fair number of things they can activate on a regular basis to significantly boost their dps.

Given that we're just as much 1-trick ponies as they are, I'm not sure why we shouldn't be almost on par with them offensively, at least when not tanking. I'm really tired of hearing "warriors can't do dps".

The whole knight 1-hander thing is pretty lame too, IMO, but I don't really know what the solution to that is other than nerfing 2+ year old weapons. They're supposed to use 2-handers to get decent DPS.

[Yoda]

- Shocking Defense: OK
- Endurance costs of OOW discs/Bazu Bellow. OK
- the shield issues can be reshaped into less points and partially remove (we have some new shield AA) .
- epic reevaluation : OK
- melee focii : need greatly to be improved. in their current state dodge/parry mod don't decrease mob's DPS, but just transform miss into more dodge/parry. I assume that fero works alike (more doubles, less triples or something like that).
- taunt : OK
- disc : OoW disc's are all less than situational, the only good points is their separation on height timers.
- we have AA to get a DB in offhand but it isn't count in the hate formula. it should be corrected. (same for bash/Slam/kick and does their stun compenent generate aggro as much as a spell or what?) : we need more and more aggro to face 500+DPS
- add more lvl70 content (revamp old zones).
- endurence regen : OK
- add so possible AC in the new tradeskill augment (we can have HP + something, end/mana + something, stats + something, resists + something but can't have AC + something). the only buyable AC aug are the 10AC from LDoN.

[Ocide]

shocking defense does work on lvl 70+ mobs, at least it did when i was exping in riftseekers. i'd use it when we pulled 2 *didn't have a chanter* it barely worked but i did notice a stun on them. i do believe they are lvl 72. upping the stun lvl won't make it anymore useful. unless you want it to stun raid mobs? which are alrdy immune. so dunno!

[Brutul]

6. Increase the effectiveness of duel wielding weapons (currently being evaluated)

Seems to me that Dual wield is preferable to 2-hand in almost every situation now. Why does it still need to be made more effective?

[bardeil]

Originally Posted by Brutul

Seems to me that Dual wield is preferable to 2-hand in almost every situation now. Why does it still need to be made more effective?

My interpretation is that it plays into the fact that our 1-handers suck compared to classes that don't get dual wield (aka knights), basically playing into my complaint about dps.

[Bigrin Da Troll]

1. Assuming that stun aggro scales with mob level/HP such that Ykesha augs become superior to Anger III on level 70+ mobs (as discussed in another thread), FIX IT. Either change the way stun aggro scales, cap the hate from stuns significantly below the 600 raw hate of Anger III, or add Anger IV augs so that Warriors once again have something (WAR only) superior to Ykesha augs for aggro generation.

2. Given the proliferation of RANGE slot items vastly superior to even the best bows in stats, and that 'Press the Attack' was (quote) never intended to be a pulling tool (end quote), give us an improved 'Throw Stone' discipline, on the same timer as Throw Stone (ie independant from the other current discs) with a significant range (at least 200, preferably 400), fixed 1 damage, 10 second reuse, to be used as a pulling tool.

3. Tradeskill-created AC augments, preferably Warrior only, with more than 10 AC. (As an extra-special request, make them a Troll cultural smithing product. #:-])

[Yoda]

1. only less than 10 poeple claims that stuns scale with HP. it's not a proof to me, for the moment it's just a hypothesis. nevertheless, there is no procing aug outside LDoN : what about creating new drop table with some improved procing aug in OoW.
2. 'thow stones' is on the same timer than incite, if we want a pulling tool it must be separated from incite otherwise we can't chain the pull with incite.
3. As my previous post, I agree.

[Lakor]

I would love if they changed the epic look to something better, heh.

Other than that, solid list.

[GraniteMG]

I'm one of those warriors that made the switch from Anger3 augs to Yak augs, I've noticed no aggro loss whatsoever, hard to tell if there's been a gain or not and i'm not going to eyeball it. Assuming Yak does scale with level, and looking at the fact that dev's havent entered item with pure hate procs in quite some time it seems both karma and the dev's are trying to ween us off the DPS loss of pure hate procs.

That said, I think a good solution would be to make Anger (Not Anger 3, Anger) a purchasable augment proc from LDoN for 1492. I've put it as my Number 3. With hards so much easier it wouldn't even be that difficult to grind out the points from scratch, let alone after trade in of the old augs.

My list would be:

1. Insane Endurance Cost of OoW Disciplines, and their sub-par effects.
2. Epic Focus Blows (effect I can live with, especially the 15% resistance rate)
3. Add an Anger Augment purchasable for 1492
4. Taunt
5. Lack of AC Augments in OoW crafting. 4/8/12 would be fine, just preferrable over HP augs.
6. Fix our epic so it doesn't look "plastic" don't even have to rework the model really, just fix the texture. Looks exactly like my old he-man toy from childhood.

[Slassh]

Whats wrong with taunt? Works pretty well in my opinoin.

My list would be:

Introduce more viable tradeskill quests for augments (MORE BIC)

Add a Anger Augment quest

Shields seem to be fine. Many benefits using shields, but the typical warrior has ass AC and subsequently doesnt gain the main benefit of increasing the effective softcap. Who really cares about DPS when your using a shield since shields are for mitigation, not DPS.

I am not a large fan of the GoD discs...

I would leave epic1.5 alone but would ensure that epic2.0 isnt just a slighly boosted 1.5. Maybe have some specific sub quests for 1.5 and 2.0 tht yield different augs that can only be equiped in those weapons?

Is this a "I want list" or is it "This is unbalanced or illogical list". because if its the former, then I would like a lot more ac and hps on all my items!!

Lets just hope epic2.0 reflects the expected trouble to get.

[Abynormal777]

If the stun agro hypothesis is correct, something needs to be on the list to; (1) cap stun hate, (2) give more hate for anger augs, (3) refund points for anger augs, or (4) something I'm not thinking of to make the situation more equal.

I definitely agree with Taunt being on the list. It's incredibly frustrating to get 6 or 7 failed taunts in a row when fighting harder mobs (since taunts success rate depends on the mobs level relative to mine.) I wouldn't mind if this happened every now and then, but to have it happen as often as it does (sorry, no stats to quote...just casual observations) is irritating for me any my group.

[Moruk]

- add AC augs just like there are augs for every other stat. Either >10ac and still restricted to the same ldon slots, or decrease slot restrictions.

- maybe i misunderstood the threads about the augs that have Improved Dodge 3 etc, it sure sounds like they are next to useless. My first impression of ID3 would be that it should reduce mob dps against me, not just fiddle with turning misses into dodges, etc. could be completely wrong on this but some dev explanations seem in order.

- explanation for what good a +8% dodge aug is to a level 70 warrior with maxed dodge skill. According to sony's own web site, it would only improve your dodge skill if you were not capped.

[Frodlin7th]

This week's list, based on your feedback:


1. Taunt. Success rate, particularly the steep decline vs. Yellow/Red mobs, is too low and too unreliable (currently being evaluated), taunting when OOR causes taunt button to grey out (fix for this should be going on Test in mid-October)

2. Re-Evaluate Epic 1.5/2.0 Effect (New)

Details: Effect has 3 major issues:

1. Duration of 60 seconds: Please change to 'until rune aspect is used'

2. Cast time: Please change to instant

3. Currently severaly underpowered in relation to Paladin epic click



3. Endurance Regen: We need endurance regen from Spells and/or items. Modrods should provide an endurance benefit equal to the mana benefit. Also, change + Endurance only augments to +Endurance regen. (currently being evaluated)

4. reimplement the ability to /disc to see the refresh timer on discs (currently being evaluated)

5. Re-Evaluate warrior disciplines.

There's a few issues:

A. Endurance costs on all of the new discs is WAY too high

B. Aura of Runes negates the use of inherent proc right clicks. Please consider "suspending" them rather than dispelling them completely.

C. The level 70 discipline needs to be effective against even con and higher mobs. If it's not reasonable to make level 70+ mobs stunnable (and it's probably not reasonable), then change the effect to a dramatic defensive based damage shield (DD) effect, or a "defensive" hate inducing proc, or something along those lines. As it currently stands, there's not a whole lot of use for the discipline which SHOULD be our best.

D. Savage onslaught needs a longer timer or shorter refresh and a MUCH lower endurance upkeep.


6. Range attack while pulling (New)

Note: The proliferation of ranged items which eliminate the use of a bow or thrown item without awkward item swapping, it is requested that the 'Throw Stone" skill be unlinked from the incite line, and a longer range placed on it (100ish feet)


7. Add a shield disc or shield usefulness (no change planned at this time) [possibly addressed in Omens - partially anyway]
The following are helpful suggestions as to what can be adjusted to shields to make them something desired. Above all, when it comes to shields, we want the option to use them for a noticeable benefit.

Adjust the effect of Furious Bash, to make it either a standard proc, or a percentage hate modifier. The concept isn't to make shields as good at aggro as dual wielding or using a 2 hand weapon, but to make them a viable option with some tangible benefit.

Add Shielding or block to shields

Warrior shields result in a larger DPS decrease than knight shields do based on the nature of knight weapons vs. warrior weapons. A warrior equipped shield should add a +damage modifier to his/her main hand weapon so that when using a shield, the DPS balance continues to exist.

Shields equippable by tanks should exceed dramatically the stats gained with an offhand weapon. 30AC and 50hp arent' enough benefit to the loss of aggro and damage that occurs when a shield is equipped

UPDATE: The real issues at this time is aggro generation comparatively with other classes who have this AA ability, who have taken dramatic strides toward tanking parity with us due to Omens launch and content, we take a much larger hit in aggro generation than others, as well as the availability of good main hand only weapons to make the shield AA useful for those without BBoB/Darkblade/Fleshbiter

8. Improve stun from kick/slam (currently being evaluated)

Update: Please advise the newest maximum stun level for kick/bash


9. Melee Focus Effects: The current level of melee foci are too limited. There are no mage summonned melee foci, and melee foci were not retroactively placed on older gear. The current list of foci is also too limited in what it acheives when compared with caster foci. (currently being evaluated)

10. Please re-evaluate endurance costs on Omens Disciplines/End skills.

Note: the cost/benefit ratio of omens discs and skills are fairly extreme, and endurance depletion is occurring, with endurance regen being nil, and in some cases below what it was in Gates, this is an issue.


Thanks guys

[Daemonwynd]

n/m