Epic, procs, and Warriors

[Battleblade]

Epic 1.5 having 2 aug slots and issues with competing procs on an single swing have me at least a bit confused. Looking forward to Epic 1.5 and having all but my level 70 discipline -

Are we agreed that YKesha procs > Anger III both for aggro and DPS?

If so, it appears to me that we should optimally aug Epic 1.5 with the Slimestone Fragment of Shock Type 4 aug (Strike of YKesha - 100DD) and Eye of the Onyx Guardian DMG +1, Disease DMG +1 Type 8 to avoid competing procs on a single swing, allow it to assist DBoW in producing Hate, maximize it's DPS, and be able to use it mainhand as a more or less non-aggro DPS weapon when not tanking.

Assuming Strike of YKesha on Epic 1.5, then DBoW can be aug'ed with Radiant Fragment of Dread (Force of YKesha - 125DD).

So here are my questions:

1. Does what I described sound pretty optimal?

2. Is there a Force of YKesha Type 4 aug?

3. What DMG+ 1H augs are there? Is there an alternative "best" auging scheme if DMG+ augs are extremely rare?

4. What proc/discipline conflicts will exist when using Symbol of the Planesmaster/Aten gloves (we might be the only Plate tank that doesn't get a free weapon self-buff, but at least most PoTime+ Warriors have these).

5. How well should such a set up play with Aura of Runes/Epic 1.5 right click effect defensively when MTing brutal mobs and Savage Onslaught when going all out DPS?

A lot of questions I know, I appreciate anyone that chooses to answer any of them.

BB

[Yoda]

1. Does what I described sound pretty optimal?
if stun > A3

Bite of Ykesha (Stun +50 DD)
type 4 : Bloodstone of Agony (Lore) ?
type 8 : none

Strike of Ykesha (Stun +100 DD)
type 4 : Slimestone Fragment of Shock (Lore) DGuk
type 4 : Sphere of Inevitability (Lore) ?
type 8 : Radiant Slimestone of Shock (Lore) DGuk

Force of Ykesha (Stun +125 DD)
type 4 : Bloodrune of the Slayer (Lore) ?
type 4 : Slimestone Fragment of Dread (Lore) DGuk
type 8 : Orb of the Slayer (Lore) ?
type 8 : Radiant Fragment of Dread (Lore) DGuk

=> so theoricitally you could have a BBB+FY / epic+2xFY. so their is a better optimum. Moreover we haven't still see any aug with a Chaotic Strike proc, which are better than the ykesha line.

2. Is there a Force of YKesha Type 4 aug?
see above

3. What DMG+ 1H augs are there? Any others?
I don't remember any type 4 or 8 '+DMG' aug so no listing. Look in GoD drops for good +DMG aug. but remember that DMG+2 has a better dps result than DMG +1, Disease DMG +1, but has the same hate production.
Moreover a 26DL weapon on primary will have around 53 round over a minute, so if you add 2Hate on each swing you will end up with at best (triple and flurry on each round! ~> impossible) 530 more hate. so a simple 125DD proc on primary at WA5 will out aggro it.

4. What proc/discipline conflicts will exist when using Symbol of the Planesmaster/Aten gloves (a safe assumption for PoTime+ Warriors).
conflict with the rune disc and maybe the DS-stun disc, but I don't think so.

5. How well should such a set up play with Aura of Runes defensively and Savage Onslaught when going all out DPS?
I've no clue since we have very few parses of rune disc and crip disc.


NOTE : I would personnally add another question :
6. since both the rune disc and the epic clicky add the rune in the bard slot, will there any stack pb between them, and with the bard buffs (overhaste, resist, regen) ? or am I in error (they don't use bard slot or they do).

[Solanthus]

Well, I don't agree that Ylesha procs are superior, but if you did then that would be the optimal setup..

As far as Pestilence shock, the only thing I know of that cancels it out is Aura of Runes... so don't use AoR until later in the fight.

[Moruk]

So someone who has the 1.5 already, and has auged one slot with anger3 and one with yak for example, these people have confirmed that it is not possible for both anger3 and yak to proc at the same time?

[unclebong]

Are we agreed that YKesha procs > Anger III both for aggro and DPS?

not yet.

For the set up you are going for BB (balance between aggro and dps) that looks pretty tastey =)

For the 2 augments, wouldnt it be one or the other proc'ing on any given swing with equal chance for the type 4 or type 8 to proc?

[Snowz]

I have always been a fan of a stun proc with a pure hate proc. They compliment themselves very nicely. I feel the stun give you the quick agro you need and the hate locks it down.

Now before augments, I used 1 hate weapon and 1 stun weapon which did its job rather nicely. Personally I would go Ykesha/Anger3 on the epic rather than dual anger or ykesha.

[Battleblade]

Unclebong wrote:

For the 2 augments, wouldnt it be one or the other proc'ing on any given swing with equal chance for the type 4 or type 8 to proc?

Yes, I believe that to be true and that weapon buff procs like the ones Knights get for free (and are never figured into weapon parses) and the Warrior right-click (eg. Symbol of the Planesmaster) procs are treated the same way.

Afaik, the only advantage to using a second (or third) proc augment or buff on a weapon is if you'd like some proc variety. That's how it's always been.

Use 2 Anger III augs or an Anger III/STA aug and the rate of Anger procs will be the same.

Thus I think a DMG+ aug may be the best way of getting a little more DPS out of the weapon and you don't sacrifice any procs by using one.

Now if DMG+ augs aren't rare as hen's teeth (given our comparatively cruddy weapon ratios such things should be Warrior only) that second aug will be useful and not just an Adventure Point sink for a second Yak or Anger III aug that does nothing.

Please please correct me if I'm wrong - that's why I'm asking.

BB

[unclebong]

I see what you mean BB. If there is only one check, to see if a proc happens or not, then you are dead on. If there is more than one check (type 4 proc? if yes then proc type 4 and goto next swing... else type 8 proc? if yes then proc type 8 and goto next swing... else imbued proc? if yes then proc imbued and goto next swing else... goto next swing) then having 2 aggro aug's would be the way to go.

Cant wait to hear what folks are finding out!

[Gimmel]

Originally Posted by Battleblade

Unclebong wrote:

Yes, I believe that to be true and that weapon buff procs like the ones Knights cast for free and are never figured into weapon parses and the Warrior right-click (eg. Symbol of the Planesmaster) procs are treated the same way.

Afaik, the only advantage to using a second (or third) proc augment or buff on a weapon is if you'd like some proc variety. That's how it's always been.

Use 2 Anger III augs or an Anger III/STA aug and the rate of Anger procs will be the same.

Thus I think a DMG+ aug may be the best way of getting a little more DPS out of the weapon and you don't sacrifice any procs by using one.

Now if DMG+ augs aren't rare as hen's teeth (given our comparatively cruddy weapon ratios such things should be Warrior only) that second aug will be useful and not just an Adventure Point sink for a second Yak or Anger III aug that does nothing.

Please please correct me if I'm wrong - that's why I'm asking.

BB

I believe that is incorrect. Having 2 proc augs will be the same as adding a proc aug to a proccing weapon, so the second aug will have a slightly reduced proc rate due to being "blocked" sometimes by the first aug. I could be wrong though, since weapons with 2 slots for procs is a fairly rare and recent occurence. If it is as you say, a bug should be filed against it.

[Gorkr Grk]

As far as I've read about 2procs on one wep is, weps swings a proc check is made for the first proc, if it passes, that proc goes off, proc2 is ignored. If the first proc check fails, proc2 is checked and may or may not go off. The 2 procs will never go off on the same swing. If this is the stone cold truth, I don't know, but from what I have seen from my own experiences it appears to be the case. I know since I started fighting with 4 procs my aggro has been far superior than when I was with 2 or 3 procs. I use pure hate procs. (magelo is a little old, I donno what it says I'm using) I don't believe that stun is better, yes I've tried both. Maybe in the very high end game stun is better, I don't know.. Toughest mob I've tanked is Ssra emp.

[Battleblade]

OK, that makes sense. Sorry for my confusion.

Setup #1 Symbol of the Planesmaster + Anger III + Force of YKesha

has a greater chance to proc than

Setup #2 Symbol of the Planesmaster + DMG aug + Force of YKesha

As more procs are added, the odds of any one individual proc to go off (in my example, Force of YKesha) is reduced.

So the questions are:

1. How much higher is the proc rate for Setup #1 than Setup #2?

2. Or more to the point, does a DMG+ aug produce more damage than a Force of YKesha aug (we already know the Yak proc has a resisability issue) assuming you are willing to forego some aggro?

BB

[unclebong]

As more procs are added, the odds of any one individual proc to go off (in my example, Force of YKesha) is reduced.

If each proc gets checked (not just one check) then the odds of a particular proc happening go down, but the odds of any proc happening go up. So effectively your chances increased at getting any aggro proc to go off (the desired effect from an aggro point of view).

[Pag0]

NOTE : I would personnally add another question :
6. since both the rune disc and the epic clicky add the rune in the bard slot, will there any stack pb between them, and with the bard buffs (overhaste, resist, regen) ? or am I in error (they don't use bard slot or they do).

This is mistaken, BOTH buff icons from the epic go in the normal buff windows, NOT the bard buff window.


I really don't understand why anyone thinks that even though it has 2 aug slots they can only use 1 proc.

Treat them just like normal procs and normal augs, 1 proc aug = 2ppm base, 2 proc augs = 4 ppm base (presuming max dex of course). Unless you only swing 2 time per minute there is no reason why you won't get the full effect from both.

Until you see a parse proving otherwise (a bug), I'm not sure where this idea came from.

[Pag0]

Originally Posted by Gimmel

I believe that is incorrect. Having 2 proc augs will be the same as adding a proc aug to a proccing weapon, so the second aug will have a slightly reduced proc rate due to being "blocked" sometimes by the first aug. I could be wrong though, since weapons with 2 slots for procs is a fairly rare and recent occurence. If it is as you say, a bug should be filed against it.

What he said. However the 2nd proc should (unless you have it on an insanely slow weapon) still proc at full capacity or the difference should be insignificant.

[apolyon]

I wouldn't sell yourself on yak just yet heh.

I'm going to giggle when everyone sellsback and swaps their augs for the latest flavor of the week ... then some serious testing btw the augs will be done and we'll be back to the yak = 450/500 and anger3 = 600.

I'd hold off on picking an augment till some valid testing is done. I've done my own to my own satisfaction, but i dont expect many people to give my "testing" much credit.