Another anger question

[Shoth]

Ok - we all know that sword of bloodsworn and copper hammer of striking is best anger combo you can buy from bazaar.

My question is this - how do you tell how many points of anger the proc gives from say the sword of the bloodsworn produces? I know it's one aggro point for point of damage from weapon, but how much does the stun produce?

Say for example I wanted to use Dexdeger's flintforged cudgel (sp?) with an anger 3 aug on it, versus an un-aug'd sword of the bloodsworn, would the flintforged cudgel be superior in that case?

From my experience, at first I had just offhanded the cudgel for damage, but recently started mainhanding it, and when it pops once, I have lots of aggro. Given that one point of damage is one point of aggro, that's a lot of aggro per proc if mainhanding it. Also given that damage is low given rate of attack, but procs per minute is the same no matter how hasted you are, you're still going to get a fair amount of aggro I would think per minute if you proc twice as much while mainhanding it.

Also on another note, what the heck is with other classes using Copper hammer of striking + sword of bloodsworn for "damage". The other day I grouped with a ranger that had this combo, and he kept wondering why he got so much aggro.

P.S. - saw that 625 DD = around 416 hate, CHoS generates around 400 - 450 hate, proc rate per minute from lucy is exact same as CHoS, given that a weapons delay is independent of proc rate, means procs roughly same amount per minute as CHoS, therefore the amount of hate generated is almost exactly the same from the proc by itself per minute, however melee damage from CHoS is superior, generating slightly more aggro.

Conclusion therefore is that CHoS outedges the cudgel's hate generation slightly by proc (but only small amount) but by a fair margain of melee damage. That being said, by main handing the cudgel, I would assume you do fair amount of extra dps vs. the CHoS, will have to run it through a calculator to see difference.

[Kebast]

Pretty sure DD's are 2/3 damage hate wise...75 pt DD is 50 hate. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I know what you mean about non-tank classes using agro weapons. Grouped with a ranger the other day who was using CHoS and another stun proc weapon . Didn't have a whole lot of trouble b/c I was pulling and had more haste than him...it is annoying sometimes though.

[Omnus]

The cudgel is bad for agro. I would put it on par with high end luclin dps, (mostly because I am always with a druid so fire is always highly debuffed)

chos and sobs own a dfc for agro. the will ahve about the same agro from procs, but the agro from base weapon damage per swing is going to be much better from a chos or sobs.

[Shoth]

But what is the dps from base weapon damage between CHoS or SoBS vs. the cudgel, and what is the difference in dps from procs? Just wondering if I'm going for a pure damage combo (for two boxing) which one would be better in mainhand.

Thanks in advance

[Omnus]

I would say for overall weapon damage a dfc will deal more damage than a chos or sotbs. depending greatly on which aa you have, and which resists are getting debuffed.

Overall agro (weapon damage agro + proc agro) the chos and sotbs are much better.

I would estimate that a chos and dfc will get about the same agro per proc. around 400.

[Payn]

BoC is bazaar buyable btw, so CHoS and SotBS is the best an avg geared warrior can afford

[Sassinak]

Stun aggro (e.g. CHOS, SOTB, GBOS) has been previously estimated at 350-400 hate, and debuff aggro (e.g. OSOW) has been estimated at 300 hate. You can add 2/3 of the damage component to that to get your total effective hate per proc.

[Shoth]

BoC is 500k on my server (brell), not gonna be buying it anytime soon.

Heck, I barely have enough to afford ornate right now, I already got the war twinnked to the teeth, but items beyond 100k + range are out of my league.

Gotta start farming Seb with my 65 cleric / 58 war combo hehe

[Lathen]

So, a rough formula to use for calculating a weapon's "hate rating" could be:

(direct damage component of proc * .75) + ( 375 [if proc has stun]) + (pure hate component of proc) = hate rating

Using that, you'd get this for an unaugmented CHoS:
(179 * .75) + (375 [stun in proc]) + (0) = 509.25

Or similarly, for an unaugmented SotB:
(75 * .75) + (375 [stun in proc]) + (0) = 431.25

For an unaugmented Cord Hilted Spike Driver (CHSD), you'd get:
(0 [no DD in proc]) + (0 [no stun in proc]) + (450 [taunting blow]) = 450

And for comparison, an unaugmented BoC:
(0 [no DD in proc]) + (0 [no stun in proc]) + (700 [enraging blow]) = 700


By modifying that formula, you could calculate the hate rating of augments, too.
(direct damage component of proc * .75) + ( 375 [if proc has stun]) + (pure hate component of proc) = hate rating

As an example, the Radiant Slimestone of Shock (510 Guk AP) would be this:
(100 * .75) + (375 [proc has 0.0 stun]) + (0) = 450

Compare that to Anger III:
(0 [no DD]) + (0 [no stun]) + 700 = 700


I know this is inexact, but maybe somebody else can add some other thoughts.

[Shoth]

Ok sweet so the cudgel hate would be (625 * 0.75) = roughlyl 469 per proc, so it actually generates more hate the SotB, but less than CHoS. Therefore we have a 12 / 19 wep vs. 12/29, in which case SotB wins.
That being said, if you aug'd the cudgel with anger 3, it would be only a small amount behind the SotB for aggro, and thus be a valid combo I would think for tanking until you get a true aggro weapon.

[Lathen]

That being said, if you aug'd the cudgel with anger 3 ...

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a minute here ----
Aggro Purists (I'm not one) will tell you that ALL weapons have a type 4 slot, so you COULD put that anger 3 on the SotB just as easily.

The nice thing about this formula is that you can explain why you're using the setup you've chosen.

Have fun,
Lathen

[Sassinak]

Lathen, two remarks -

First of all, why are you multiplying by .75? The ratio proposed by Graffe is 2/3, not 3/4. This is inflating some of your numbers.

Second of all, Anger 3 is 600 hate, not 700.

[Mykil]

Someone suggested ~300 hate for debuff procs. Would that be any type of debuff or say only AC or resist debuff procs?

[Shoth]

Interesting observation from this thread. Based upon what I am reading, the CHoS out aggros the cord-spiked driver or whatever it's called from PoI - by a fair amount (the pile driver is 450 points of anger).

[Lathen]

Thanks for the input, Sassinak!

1) I corrected the figure. I was multiplying by .75 because I'm a doofus and was in a meeting at work.

2) Anger 3 is, indeed, 600 hate. I corrected that as well.

Hee!

Corrections Below:

So, a rough formula to use for calculating a weapon's "hate rating" could be:

(direct damage component of proc * .66) + ( 375 [if proc has stun]) + (pure hate component of proc) = hate rating

Using that, you'd get this for an unaugmented CHoS:
(179 * .66) + (375 [stun in proc]) + (0) = 493.14

Or similarly, for an unaugmented SotB:
(75 * .66) + (375 [stun in proc]) + (0) = 424.5

For an unaugmented Cord Hilted Spike Driver (CHSD), you'd get:
(0 [no DD in proc]) + (0 [no stun in proc]) + (450 [taunting blow]) = 450

And for comparison, an unaugmented BoC:
(0 [no DD in proc]) + (0 [no stun in proc]) + (700 [enraging blow]) = 700


By modifying that formula, you could calculate the hate rating of augments, too.
(direct damage component of proc * .66) + ( 375 [if proc has stun]) + (pure hate component of proc) = hate rating

As an example, the Radiant Slimestone of Shock (510 Guk AP) would be this:
(100 * .66) + (375 [proc has 0.0 stun]) + (0) = 441

Compare that to Anger III:
(0 [no DD]) + (0 [no stun]) + 600 = 600