Possible alterations to LDoN that support other problems at the current time

[Celeritum]

This post originated as a response to Frodlin's thread on the casual warrior, but it was so heavily biased towards LDoN I felt it slightly deviated from the central point.

LDoN is the first expansion that was ever released that holds capacity for later alterations, keeping in line with the theme of the expansion. Thus, I see a lot of possibility in LDoN to help fix some of the current problems that are being mentioned lately.

I would like to see some real tangible progression in LDoN, that could allow for a few key changes to what seems to be slightly problematic at this time.

First, allow people to chose what kinds of missions they go on. Everybody that I know that LDoNs just declines adventures until they get the one they want. It's an unneeded timesink, in what already is large timesink.

Imagine the following:

Timothy, our group leader for this example, is a level 65 Warrior. He has obtained, and successfully won, 25 Rescue, Slaughter, Assassinate, and Collect missions on the normal level. Now, when Timothy goes to get adventures, there will be a new option for him. This will be the start of progression maps. They must be completed in order, with one victory opening up another map. Timothy may also start any progression maps he has already won.

Timothy gains in power and gear as he continues through these progression level maps.

Timothy now obtains, and successfully wins, 25 Rescue, Slaughter, Assassinate, and Collect missions on the Hard level. Now, when Timothy goes to get adventures, there will be another new option for him. Hard level progression maps, that must still be completed in order, with one victory opening up another map, and with all previous maps accessable to return to.

Laying the groundwork for all that, I would propose that two new adventure merchants be added to each LDoN camp. These adventure merchants would operate on the seperate levels of the progression style maps, with class specific items and augments that are purchasable only through points gained through said maps.

The progression maps should be given completely new itemization, as well as new challenges. Make the type of map correlalate with the type of mission it purposes to be. Add some interactivity to maps; some levers or buttons, but nothing to obscure.

Give actual meaning to the type of mission it is. For example, on a rescue type progression map, rescuing the unfortunate fellow (how did we trust these people to build a boat to get us to GoD anyway, they get lost ALL THE FREAKING TIME!!!) might open up a secondary mission. Perhaps he unlocks a deeper portion of the dungeon, or perhaps he gives an item that will be useful in the next mission. Assassination type missions should have some sort of element of secrecy to it. The bosses should drop completely unique gear. This would be a good chance to add some decent class-specific weaponry, like Warrior weapons with innate aggro procs. Collect missions: perhaps you might be given a bag, with orders to go collect 10 items. The items would drop off mini nameds. Combine them and you receive a seperate item that will be key in defeating the next map.

I think this would benefit a large portion of the gaming community as a whole. It would give casual players an opportunity to feel some kind of tangible progression, not necessarily gear related, in the time they log on to play every day. It's instanced content, so it can be done anytime, and it can be implemented without stepping on the toes of the high-end gamers. It's enough of a timesink that people are earning their way to rewards, but by the same token it's not an outrageous timesink. I put some thought into the numbers, at 25 wins for every type of mission, that leaves room for five missions from every camp, for every type of mission available. Overall it's 100 wins of every kind of mission, with 25 wins total from every camp.

It also allows Sony to implement some kind of itemization scheme that would benefit casual players. We already know that LDoN equipment has the potential to be amazing given the proper augments, but it would be nice to see new specific items for every class. This would give players a feeling of accomplishment not only in their progression, but also their characters. It also leaves room to place some more decent weaponry in the hands of players, that quite frankly, could stand to see some diversity at the least. Plus, since the loot would be nodrop, it gives people that feeling of accomplishment where you wear the loot you earn by defeating foul beasts, not just CHoS/SotB^1000000.

I'd like people to post some thoughts on this. Maybe even some more ideas that could mesh with it. I think it's an interesting idea that has at least some potential, and if the right people start hearing about it, might provide for further expansion into the game.

[Battleblade]

I don't thinks these are bad ideas at all.

However, I think everyone feels trapped in a rat maze after awhile in LDoN. Most want to get in, get what they want, and get out. Many will continue to do it just because it's an easy way to get pickup groups.

I do think LDoN could use some changes, particularly Difficult/Medium/Normal, guaranteed one loot dropping mob on Assassinates, bigger loot tables, and 18 player raids. Progressive quests would be interesting too.

At the same time, I don't think such things make the game exciting to play.

I'd much rather see 50 Fabled mobs with drops like the previous Fabled drops with 25 of them randomly active at any given time. It's much more fun to go hunting in terrain that you haven't seen for a long time than to go grinding in terrain that is all too familiar. I have to say the Fabled mobs were far and away the most exciting non-raid thing I've seen in EQ for 5 years. Sorry derail.

Fabled mobs rocked da house.

BB

[Vikken]

Both of your ideas are great. I'd love to see some kind of zone progression in LDoN unlocking class specific rewards. My casual guild does LDoN almost nonstop. MMaybe we have an unusualy resistance to repetition, but most of us like working towards goals that will be attainable if we just put in the time without requiring a large ammount of people. Most of our players like grouping best and only do raids for epics and nostalgia raids in old zones. Maybe not hardcore, but we seem to be fairly happy.

GoD would have probably been fun for us, except that none of our tanks can handle the content. We just aren't gear for that level of progression. If there was only one thing I wish GoD would have had was lower progression content. I'd love to see past natimbi without a corpse run. There's a lot in EQ that I haven't seen and thats a major driving factor behind my characters' progression. LDoN type, bite sized, zone/difficuty progressions would totally cater to this.

Still just wishing for medium difficulty adventures....

[Guyfencin]

I like your idea a lot! But I do wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate to have a "participation flag" requirement for the remainder of the group, maybe one win in each mission type of each theme (or did you intend that all participants in the progression missions would have to have the 100 wins?). Having a prereq for everybody would help foster the feeling of accomplishment, I think. It would also help ensure there's a pool of players willing to group for less popular mission types, which would help casuals seeking the "full" flag.

The itemization possibilities are what I like best about your plan. Having a progression path that included meaningful gear rewards that could be won in battle by non-raiders would be a huge boost to my enjoyment of the game. The adv merchant stuff is ok, but it just isn't nearly as fun to cash in some generic points as it is to equip something taken directly from a defeated foe or to finally complete a quest with defined steps. Of course, RvR would have to be tuned so that upgrades don't come too easily or too quickly, but that'd just make success all the more sweet.

You should try to stir interest on other class boards and/or the Sony boards. If your idea catches on with enough players maybe we can get SOE to implement it!

[Celeritum]

Guyfencin;

When I was pondering these ideas, I was wondering about the very first thing you said. I think there would be less of a feeling of accomplisment if only one person was needed to start the progression maps; however, keep in mind this would be directed primarily at casual gamers. It would probably be difficult to look through the lfgs to find people that met yet another additional flag requirement in order to zone into an area, albiet one they could actually do.

Having said that, the model I chose was largly influenced by GoD - to start the trials, even the ikkiniz trials, only one person has to have the content done up to that point (well, of course ikkiniz trials require you to be able to zone into KT, but trial 8 and 9 can be started with one person in the group that did 7)

I was hoping I'd get a large display of support for something like this before looking around to get some popular opinions, but I think it might be kind of lacking at this point.

Battleblade, yes ldons do get to feeling like rat mazes...that's why I was thinking something implemented like this would be nice. The progression maps would have to be entirely new, thus revamping the tired old map scheme a bit. The progression maps could count towards maxing your charm, further helping make the ldon grind a bit less of a grind. And I think especially being allowed to choose what mission you want, would help in a long run to diminish the time sink aspect of things.

Vikken; GoD is an incredible boon to players, and I feel a lot of people aren't giving it the proper chances. Can your tanks handle a hard ldon? Do you have skilled enchanters? If so, you can definitely finish trials 1-6 and gear up in the process. Very nifty things drop in those trials : )

[Flair]

Having a progression path that included meaningful gear rewards that could be won in battle by non-raiders would be a huge boost to my enjoyment of the game. The adv merchant stuff is ok, but it just isn't nearly as fun to cash in some generic points as it is to equip something taken directly from a defeated foe or to finally complete a quest with defined steps.

Agree man...I like the ideas here. LDoN is such a GOOD idea as a basis for gameplay (easily my favorite thing added to EQ in 5+ years I have been playing Flair) it would be a shame if SoE didnt expand it somehow.

[Guyfencin]

Originally Posted by Celeritum

I was hoping I'd get a large display of support for something like this before looking around to get some popular opinions, but I think it might be kind of lacking at this point.

Celeritum,

I'd encourage you not to give up easily. Raiders outnumber non-raiders, and hard-core players outnumber casuals, among posters to this forum and others I read. They have less to gain from your proposal than others (though little to lose, thus no posts in opposition so far, knock on wood). I think the best chance to start this going somewhere pretty much requires seeking support on multiple class boards and the SOE boards too. You present your case succinctly and with a good positive feel to it. I think you could prove very effective championing this cause (as opposed to someone with a tendency to grate on other people the way I often do).

Seriously, think it over. You just might be the one who could start something that makes EQ a better game for the casual player.

[Holywrath]

Those are some really good ideas. Maybe you should post them on the EQ website, where it's quite possible a dev might read it.

Personally I'm really burned out on LDoN. There are only so many pickup groups you can handle, and on top of that, everyone wants to do the same theme, over and over. Something like this, could possibly re-kindle my interists. 18 man raids would be wonderful. I wouldn't be concerned with the loot that would drop, but possibly more than 105 points for completing a raid..

[Abynormal777]

I like the original post...I also think you should pursue post on the EQ website and let the developers have a look at it.

[Shadowfrost]

That's one of the best posts I've read in a long time.

[Celeritum]

Well I posted the original thread on the EQ boards, now I'm just hoping it doesn't get flamed or ranted down, before some devs come to take a peek at it...

[Brabble]

You'd get a thumbs up from me. It's a really good idea on a number of levels.
I wonder, though, whether the central objection to it wouldn't be outside strict game-play considerations -- namely, that the sort of development costs associated with creating all this additional programing for an "old" expansion would be difficult to justify economically. Would be a better deal for SOE to spend the resources on a new expansion. I suspect that's why they've never gone back and done major revamps to old zones (well, they put the frogs in, but that was closely associated with a new expansion, and actually probably cost less than designing an entire new zone for frogs; and they fiddled with the collision system, but that was a game-wide deal that cost nothing extra to implement in old world zones).
None of that means a line of instanced content that adds a progressive element amidst the repetition would be bad, though. And goodness knows I apparently have no objection to paying more for more content, heh.

[Pelidorn]

I am a casual Warrior in a group of friends and a guild that does mostly LDoN normal since we dont have the healers available for hards most of the time. We easily go through normal in 30 min or less and are in dire need of more challenging content that doesnt require a 12k tank (I have 8.5k buffed). The ideas presented by Celeritum offer us a path to accomplish more in ldon since we are all mostly "casual players" and are only part way to getting Elem access and can handle GoD sewers and the like but not higher end GoD content. I hope this idea catches someones attention at SoE and gets serious consideration. On the flip side even adding a couple more adventure zones and some more gear would be a vast improvement and seems that it would be pretty easy to do.
My only gripe is please remove the resting timer when a mission is successful. Not sure why they started that but it is very irritating to sit for 10 or 15min after flying through an adventure.

[Celeritum]

This doesn't seem to be going over very well on the boards, it's posted under the Warriors forums, in the first of the three forums there.


I've been /gasp...two starred! ><

[Frig Coldheart]

Celeritum this is one of the best ideas I have seen in along time. I myself am in a family type guild and LDoN is a large part of our planned progression. Also as Pelidorn stated we breeze right thru regular LDoN's but hards are still a bit too hard. I would also like to see a middle ground somewhere. BB's ideas on the fabled mobs are great as well. I myself never got the opportunity to get any of the fabled drops, the waiting list were just too long for me.