Anger Augment Question

[Cuthbadth]

Now that augments can be sold back for about 70% of original points, I have a question regarding a dual wield setup that seems worth reconsidering the old logic of save for an Anger 3 augment and don't stop until then (unless you prefer Ykesha augments).

In particular, I currently have an Anger 2 augment in my primary. I have only 1 win (out of 1 attempts) in Guk, so Ykesha augments are not an option atm.

I was calculating that the Anger 3 might generate around 50ish more hate per minute than the two Anger 2's. Yet the dual Anger 2's should provide a safer, more reliable ramp up on hate, due to if only having an Anger 3 in mainhand, no significant agro is possible from the offhand (excluding the built-in procs of course) .

So, am I correct in assuming that an Anger 2 augment in both my primary and secondary is roughly equivalent (perhaps marginally worse) than an Anger 3 augment for primary and no Anger augment for secondary (in regards to average hate per minute)?

If that is right, since I already have an Anger 2 and the dual Anger 2's will not be significantly less agro than a single Anger 3, combined with being able to trade augments in later, am I also correct in that I will not be shooting myself in the foot if I get a second Anger 2 augment for now (so I can go back to hp/ac upgrades until I feel I need a boost in agro generation again)?

P.S. My main concern is wanting to have enough agro for Hard LDoN's and Sewers (Plant, specifically) so that my groupmates can cast a little sooner and med a little sooner w/o major concerns of being eaten alive (esp., if the mob resisted slow)...and I have noticed a nice bump from just the single Anger 2. That being the case, I am also really interested in beefing up my AC, AA & HP to make hard LDoN's and Sewers easier on the entire group.

[Kogur]

standard proc rate is 2 procs per minute. Anger2 will proc twice per minute giving a total of 800 aggro per minute. Anger3 will proc twice per minute giving a total of 1200 aggro per minute. Anger2 augment in offhand will proc once per minute giving an additional 400 hate.

So having anger2 on both weapons will generate roughly the same aggro as a singular Anger3 on your primary. I'd save save your points a bit longer to get an Anger3 for your main hand, and move that Anger2 to your offhand for a little extra assurance.

[Cuthbadth]

Originally Posted by Kogur

standard proc rate is 2 procs per minute. Anger2 will proc twice per minute giving a total of 800 aggro per minute. Anger3 will proc twice per minute giving a total of 1200 aggro per minute. Anger2 augment in offhand will proc once per minute giving an additional 400 hate.

So having anger2 on both weapons will generate roughly the same aggro as a singular Anger3 on your primary. I'd save save your points a bit longer to get an Anger3 for your main hand, and move that Anger2 to your offhand for a little extra assurance.

Anger 3 is 1150 points.
Anger 2 is 510 points.

I have about 300 saved.
I still need (at least) EF Legs (760), 2 x NR Bracers (1492), 1 x 36% haste aug (1150) ... excluding any 10 ac augments and possible NR arms, boots that = 4894 points or 49 hards (@ 80+ min each) or 96 normals (@ 40+ min each). Hence I'm valuing bang for the buck unless there is dramatic (very noticable) improvement.

If I use the 2 ppm mainhand (I only have WA2 btw) and 1 ppm offhand I get...

Setup #1 (Current) = 2000 hate / min
MH: 2 * 400 (built-in stun) + 2 * 400 (Anger 2) = 1600
OH: 1 * 400 (built-in stun) + 1 * 0 (75 dd proc -> 0 agro) = 400

Setup #2 (Dual Anger II) = 2400 hate / min
MH: 2 * 400 (built-in stun) + 2 * 400 (Anger 2) = 1600
OH: 1 * 400 (built-in stun) + 1 * 400 (Anger 2) = 800

Setup #3 (Anger III Only) = 2400 hate / min
MH: 2 * 400 (built-in stun) + 2 * 600 (Anger 2) = 2000
OH: 1 * 400 (built-in stun) + 1 * 0 (75 dd proc -> 0 agro) = 400

Setup #4 (Anger III, Anger II) = 2800 hate / min
MH: 2 * 400 (built-in stun) + 2 * 600 (Anger 2) = 2000
OH: 1 * 400 (built-in stun) + 1 * 400 (Anger 2) = 800

Are these formulas close enough for government work or am I missing something more? Seems like I should take the 2nd Anger II and save 640 points (almost enough for EF pants, I'm wearing Kylong) versus the 14% improvement in agro with the Anger III / Anger II setup. Or am I really underestimating the difference of that 14% hate per minute (considering also that very few mobs in my groups live longer than 1 minute)?

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Cuthbadth

(I only have WA2 btw)

Setup #1 (Current) = 2000 hate / min
MH: 2 * 400 (built-in stun) + 2 * 400 (Anger 2) = 1600
OH: 1 * 400 (built-in stun) + 1 * 0 (75 dd proc -> 0 agro) = 400

Setup #2 (Dual Anger II) = 2400 hate / min
MH: 2 * 400 (built-in stun) + 2 * 400 (Anger 2) = 1600
OH: 1 * 400 (built-in stun) + 1 * 400 (Anger 2) = 800

Setup #3 (Anger III Only) = 2400 hate / min
MH: 2 * 400 (built-in stun) + 2 * 600 (Anger 2) = 2000
OH: 1 * 400 (built-in stun) + 1 * 0 (75 dd proc -> 0 agro) = 400

Setup #4 (Anger III, Anger II) = 2800 hate / min
MH: 2 * 400 (built-in stun) + 2 * 600 (Anger 2) = 2000
OH: 1 * 400 (built-in stun) + 1 * 400 (Anger 2) = 800

nope.
WA2 + 174 DEX =1.4ppm MH / 0.7ppm OH
stun hate is between 350 and 450, so you are right, but I will use 350 for safer reason and give 400 hate in braket. DD Hate is 2:3 ratio.

we end up with

Setup #1 (Current) = 1547 hate / min (1655 Hpm)
MH: 1.4*( 469 (built-in stun) + 400 (A2) ) = 1224 (1296)
OH: 0.7*( 400 (built-in stun) + 50 (75 dd ) ) = 323 (359)

Setup #2 (Dual Anger II) = 1793 hate / min (1901 Hpm)
MH: 1.4*( 469 + 400 ) = 1224 (1296)
OH: 0.7*( 400 + 400 ) = 569 (605)


Setup #3 (Anger III Only) = 1821 hate / min (1929 Hpm)
MH: 1.4*( 469 + 600 ) = 1498 (1570)
OH: 0.7*( 400 + 50 ) = 323 (359)

Setup #4 (Anger III, Anger II) = 2067 hate / min (2175 Hpm)
MH: 1.4*( 469 + 600 ) = 1498 (1570)
OH: 0.7*( 400 + 400 ) = 569 (605)

and of course this is only from the procs. So remember you will always see some damn long minutes without any procs.

EDIT : getting from WA2 to WA5 at 174 DEX is 50% more proc per minute so if you need adv points for armors go first for WA5 before upgrading your procing aug because from your curent setup to the A3/A2 combo you will gain only 34% (31% with 400 hate for stun) Hate from proc.

[Kogur]

The problem with your assessment is WA is not applied to augments.

[Yoda]

then could you explain this post HERE
espacially the increase of A3

0 Combat Effects, NO Weapon Affinity (5 samples, 2482+ minutes)
"face contorts with rage": 2.769 per minute
...

0 Combat Effects, Weapon Affinity 5 (5 samples, 2703+ minutes)
"face contorts with rage": 4.071 per minute (+47.02% over CE 0, no WA)

OK the parse can't make the difference between the MH A3 and the OH A3, but still +47% in proc rate from WA0 to WA5.

it's strange that somebody with so much proc don't see the benefit of your WA5.

note : there is still a flaw in my statment : I consider that WA benefit isn't proportional of the dexterity. thus the bigger the dex is the lesser benefit WA give. this could be wrong, but I don't want to parse it. but if it's wrong a bit of math would then give a fixed 32% increase of ppm from WA2 to WA5 no matter the dexterity.

[Cuthbadth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

174 DEX =1.4ppm MH / 0.7ppm OH

I did not think to include my typical dex while grouped, but it is extremely rare for me to be in a group without a dex buff of some sort (Fo7 or SoV + NDT or worse case best 65 beast dex). So I am quite typically at or near 280 dexterity in 90% of my groups. However, I assume this will offset both mainhand and offhand agro by a similar percent (I don't know what your dex to ppm ratio is)?

Originally Posted by Yoda

stun hate is between 350 and 450

I averaged the 350 to 450 hate I've seen posted here for stuns to arrive at 400 (perhaps an actual stun is 450 and a resist is 350 /shrug, I know I'm less peeved if I resist a spell than when I'm actually hit by it).

Originally Posted by Kogur

The problem with your assessment is WA is not applied to augments.

I'll admit I may be confused in regards to exactly how WA works. Does it actually increase the maximum possible procs / minute or just increase the average procs / minute closer to the maximum?

My thinking is that having a Anger II in each hand is better than Anger III in primary only was due to the fact that if any proc happens it's a guaranteed 400 hate bump (presuming stun = 400, which may be wrong), versus a possible 50 bump (using Yoda's number) for the current offhand augment I have. Is that wrong? If I am wrong, then you're saying I should not bother with more hate via augments until after I get WA5 (in which case, it will not be for weeks, since I want to finish my defensive AA track first)?


Ok, this is really making me ask more questions. If it is true that I can't proc both my weapon and my augment at the same time, is that also true for the proc from NDT and bard song? Therefore, if I had NDT on, does it have an additional maximum of 2 ppm, but at the possible expense of having one of my bigger procs not fire? Or is there a set order that procs will happen if multiple procs could happen? e.g., if RND determines main wpn, aug and NDT could all proc, how does it determine which one to proc first?

Also, am I correct in thinking 305 dex + WA5 will only increase the odds of reaching 2ppm, not necessarily a prerequisite of getting 2 ppm in any given minute? If so, how do I calculate the agro gaing from having a potential hate of 2ppm versus the reality of an average of 1.4 ppm?

[Yoda]

I thought a bit more about the DEX influence on Proc to tweak the results closer to reality.
WA is the same kid of procing bonus as the one on BBotE, BF, ... thus the bonus is aplied to the procing chance after its calculation based on dex.

But nevertheless, the random generator as such a big variance that proc are still unpredictable. Giving this it's better to have 10 procs of 100 hate than one of 1000 hate. so yes a dual A2 combo is better than a A3 single setup.

but for a new sumarise we have (280 Dex, WA2, stun Hate = 350 to get the minimum value)

Setup #1 (Current) = 2266 hate / min
MH: 2.1*( 469 (built-in stun) + 400 (A2) ) = 1789
OH: 1.1*( 400 (built-in stun) + 50 (75 dd ) ) = 477

Setup #2 (Dual Anger II) = 2625 hate / min
MH: 2.1*( 469 + 400 ) = 1789
OH: 1.1*( 400 + 400 ) = 837


Setup #3 (Anger III Only) = 2661 hate / min
MH: 2.1*( 469 + 600 ) = 2184
OH: 1.1*( 400 + 50 ) = 477

Setup #4 (Anger III, Anger II) = 3021 hate / min
MH: 2.1*( 469 + 600 ) = 2184
OH: 1.1*( 400 + 400 ) = 837


as I said above, this give that A3/DD is better than A2/A2 but actually it's wrong because your chance to have aggro from proc is better when you don't relly on only one proc (DD aggro is shit, you can't see the 50 aggro helping you when you loose aggro). So yes go for A2/A2 instead of A3/DD. But once again think that from your current state A2/A2 is 16% increase in aggro, but WA3/4/5 is 8/17/30% increase over WA2. so if you go for WA4, you can then use your adv pts on armors and HP/AC aug.

[apolyon]

Originally Posted by Kogur

The problem with your assessment is WA is not applied to augments.

Yes ... WA does work for augments


If you're slow at geting points i would buy 1 anger 2 ... put it on your least favorite droga weapon and use that weapon in your mainhand. Then, work on an anger3 augment slowly ... put it on the unauged weapon then swap their placement.