Just bought a Moss Covered Twig

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well had to sell a 100K horse for the money but picked up a Moss Covered Twig (del 10, damage 3) for 165K. Only the 2nd time I have seen the item for sale in over 3 years so I figure it worth it for rareity.

But I have no idea what to do with it, is there a good agument for it? Slot 4.

Is the DPS a ton?

Naturally I plan to main hand it, in what situation is this item of use? What AA should I get to maximize its effectivness...

I have WA5 but not many offensive AA... (all the defensive though)..

Can't use if for awhile cause i am maining on the PvP test server right now and won't get back to SZ for a week or so at least.

[Raaj]

Wasn't this offhand only?

[Dracillion]

I got nerfed to offhand only ages ago. (bout what, 3 or 4 months after Kunark came out)

[Shirion]

=( Offhand only. Not a wise choice.

[Partha]

Originally Posted by Shirion

=( Offhand only. Not a wise choice.

Note the original buyer.

[Oron]

That thing sure was a lot of fun in Kunark, but yeah, it got nerfed to offhand. Then it became completely worthless.

[Haass]

A fool and his money

[Isk]

and the mob who mindlessly taunts him.

(lay off)

[Holywrath]

Damn, I'd almost feel bad for your, except, you could have looked at the item before you bought it.

[Yecch]

This is either a sad troll, or else it couldn't have happened to a better person.

[Pumilio]

...

[lanolar]

Well considering your offhand has a damage bonus now a parse might be interesting.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I gots robbed lol.... oh well.... dang. Well still its kinda like a rare item... one of the few buyable items I have never owned. And its not like 165K is anything to someone with well over 3 million worth of stuffs... Ya its only secondary, but it can be agumented...

Ya true enough a fool and his money are soon parted oh well, thats life on the internet, somedays yur pixils shine and others they dim.....

Offhand has damage bonus...? hummm but does the delay effect the offhand at all? Well I guess I gonna have to try it out at least... maybe get ambidexatry.

[Neksnappa]

Don't try it out. Ratio is god in offhand, and I doubt the offhand dmg bonus AA will change that enough to make the twig useful. Aug'ing it with a dps aug will not make the aug proc more often, as weapon delay has nothing to do with amount of procs in a given time. Try reselling it for a profit.

And if your gear cost you 3 mill plat, you've been screwed much worse than this in the past...

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well 3 million total over 7 toons, Im probably the top merchant on my server. I bought 5 earthshakers for:

7K
15K
60K
175K
200K

I Am using one and have one for sale sold 3 for:

444K
390K
360K

With 250JC and all the JCAA I do ok.... heh.

Well I gonna give it a shot before I resell it, still its kinda bragging rights as a merchant to own one, even if it turns out usless. Its so rare this is only the 2nd time in 3 years I have seen one for sale on SZ.... I might even put it out for more (199K) just for its rarity value.


Ya weapon delay has no effect on procs.. I kinda forgot how offhand "delay" is calculated, is it just a chanch to make it based on each mainhand swing? Seems then you would want a low delay mainhand and a huge damage offhand then, regardless of ratio ... well let me look it up...


http://b5.ezboard.com/fthesafehouset...ID=20345.topic


Cause I wanted to know…

The question of whether the off-hand DB AA, Sinister Strikes adds a fixed amount of dps, or if it performs better or worse at higher or lower delays has been a subject of debate in my guild recently. What follows is a mathematical answer to that question. I humbly await the inevitable corrections which will follow, but ask that you keep in mind the purpose of this post is *not* to determine exactly how much dps SS adds, but rather to determine if having SS should make any bearing on your weapon choices.

Facts:

The DB for the AA scales with delay. The generally accepted formula is round(delay/3.5).

Observed values for DB are 5 at 19 (Sincro), 6 at 20 (Sincro), 7 at 24 (Hagin of TR), 7 at 25 (Sincro), 8 at 28 (Sincro) 9 at 30 (Brogett). These observed values are determined using the Finishing Blow AA, and observing the damage done with an off-hand blow. 3200x where x is the off-hand DB.

Damage done by off-hand DB is determined by hits per second.

Assumptions:

60% of swings will hit. This is based on large data samples from multiple lvl 65 rogue parses. 60% is a little on the stingy side.

With max skill, you will dual wield 88% of the time, and double attack 88% of those times with your off hand. These numbers are the most nebulous of the ones in this post. If someone has hard numbers for what percentage of time you both dual wiled and double attack when at max skill, I'd love to hear it. Tables can be adjusted to reflect those new numbers.

For a lvl 65 rogue with maxed dual wield and double attack, the off-hand will swing the following number of times per minute: (60 seconds / (delay / 10)) * .88 * 2 * .88 * (1 + (haste% / 100))


Hits per minute will be that number times 0.6. dps will be hits per minute times DB divided by 60.

Caveat: The numbers generated on this able are not actual off-hand dps numbers. If you happen to hit 62% of the time, and determine you DW and DA 90% and 90% of the time, these numbers will be a little low. If you only hit 55% of the time, and DW and DA 85% and 85% of the time, these numbers will be a little high. If you've got 30% bard overhaste, these numbers are going to be a lot low. The point of the table is to determine whether off-hand dps is fairly constant regardless of a weapon's delay, or if higher or lower delay weapons are better.

Results:
delay haste DB spm hpm dps
19 0 5 48.91 29.35 2.445474
20 0 6 46.46 27.88 2.78784
24 0 7 38.72 23.23 2.7104
25 0 7 37.17 22.30 2.601984
28 0 8 33.19 19.91 2.655086
30 0 9 30.98 18.59 2.78784

19 40 5 68.47 41.08 3.423663
20 40 6 65.05 39.03 3.902976
24 40 7 54.21 32.52 3.79456
25 40 7 52.04 31.22 3.642778
28 40 8 46.46 27.88 3.71712
30 40 9 43.37 26.02 3.902976

19 100 5 97.82 58.69 4.890947
20 100 6 92.93 55.76 5.57568
24 100 7 77.44 46.46 5.4208
25 100 7 74.34 44.61 5.203968
28 100 8 66.38 39.83 5.310171
30 100 9 61.95 37.17 5.57568


Upon reflection of the data, one thing stands out, and that is the poor performance of the 19 delay weapon. This is a direct result of the way the DB works. Two other delays (17 and 18 ) also have a theorized DB of 5. Results for those theoretical delays is:

delay haste DB spm hpm dps
17 000 5 54.66 32.80 2.733176
17 040 5 76.53 45.92 3.826447
17 100 5 109.33 65.60 5.466353

18 000 5 51.63 30.98 2.581333
18 040 5 72.28 43.37 3.613867
18 100 5 103.25 61.95 5.162667



Upon reflection, this makes absolute sense. Since all three weapons have the same DB, then the one which swings the most will generate the most DPS from the bonus. We have a lot of experience with this for primary hand weapons, which is why 7/14 is *far* better then 14/28, even though they have the exact same ratio. In this case, the 17 delay weapon has a dps number right in line with the higher delay weapons, therefore there is no bias towards or against weapons with low delay. 19 delay just happens to be a low spot, and 20 and 30 seem to be high spots. However, the overall difference of 0.68 dps between the best and worst weapons at 100% haste hardly seems worth choosing a weapon simply based on off-hand weapon bonus.

I therefore submit that the old adage of ratio is king for off-hand dps remains valid.

A better question might be: Why did I spend 15 AA for 5.xx dps…
-Sinc

There is no I in team, but there is a U in suck.







Ok the number of swings from offhand seems to be related to offhand delay right? Thats good for twig, but then the DB is Delay / 3.5 which is like 3 or so which doubles the damage of the twig.

Well I dont have time to crank out all the numbers right now, got to play some pvp on the beta server - having a blast heh. Ill crank through it tommow.