AA Rankings by Function

[Mokor Leadheaad]

now on to the real ? asked not the one i thought was asked. the agro part.

305 dex is needed to get the 2ppm anything less is well not 2ppm. it defintly would fall into the relm of opinion weither the increas in max dex from 280 to 305, or the currently iirc unknow rate of flurry firing would be greater agro. from the purely aa cost perspective. many would agree pp should be bought befor flurry if only for tanking additions(kinda makes it a moot point). from the dps perspective the attack and unparaseable proc increase would still net cheaper dps increases. in my opinion this would place pp above flurry on just about any part of the list.

is this better?

[Redhenna]

Nice thread Daab. Great format, great info.

[Derrict]

Originally Posted by Callon

(49,355 / (1,253,365 - 49,355)) * 100 = 4.1% more damage

For me then, it's roughly a 4% dps upgrade that I use almost all the time. For 15 AAs, it far outpaces the return per AA of many of our offensive AAs, especially Combat Fury, double riposte, etc. So I'm pretty happy with it.

Your results may vary depending on your weapon setup, but maybe this will give a general idea of what to expect.

What was the duration of the fights for the dps gain itself? 4.1% is an excellent gain but SS will remain a fairly constant DPS since it won't scale as your offhand weapon improves.

[Daabu]

The faster your offhand, the better SS is. At least, thats how I think it is.

If it's +5dmg every offhand hit, a faster offhand > slower offhand.

[Zaboo]

Great post Daabu. Well thought out and informative.

[Callon]

Daabu, the bonus is offhand delay / 3.5. I don't know if it rounds or truncates decimals, but 18 / 3.5 = 5.14. I get 5 bonus.

My log parses are at home. I'll check them later, but point taken, Derrict, that as my weapons and over dps improve, SS will be a lower percentage increase. Also more attack buffs I have up, the more dps I will do and thus the less percentage gain from SS. I took the parse from several different zones and I'm sure I had a variety of attack buffs up. I was going more for an overall average of what I get from the skill. For dps, all I can really do is take YALP's word for it, whatever it came out, but YALP seems to be kind of off sometimes on it's timing. I use 17/20 and 14/18 weapons right now.

[Derrict]

Originally Posted by Daabu

The faster your offhand, the better SS is. At least, thats how I think it is.

If it's +5dmg every offhand hit, a faster offhand > slower offhand.

I made a reply but I guess it didn't make it through. Like Callon mentioned, it's delay div 3.5 to find the offhand damage bonus so this keeps the offhand damage bonus dps fairly consistent within 0.5 dps regardless of the weapon you use. As you get a faster offhand, the DB decreases. Vice versa, higher DB for a slower delay. Here's a post on the rogue forum that shows some info - http://b5.ezboard.com/fthesafehouset...ID=20345.topic

[Callon]

Originally Posted by Derrict

Like Callon mentioned, it's delay div 3.5 to find the offhand damage bonus so this keeps the offhand damage bonus dps fairly consistent within 0.5 dps regardless of the weapon you use.

Nice safehouse thread.... though I think you meant 5 dps, not 0.5.

[Derrict]

Originally Posted by Callon

Nice safehouse thread.... though I think you meant 5 dps, not 0.5.

I guess I was thinking it but didn't type it. What I meant was the difference in delay but the same damage bonus. A weapon with 19 delay has the same DB as a 20 delay weapon but the 19 delay weapon will do slightly more dps, roughly within 0.5 dps of the 20 delay weapon but the overall damage increase is roughly 5-5.5 dps with ambidex and fero 3 and should remain consistent regardless of the weapon in offhand.

I did this parse a few months back with a few hit charts for the number crunchers: http://b5.ezboard.com/fthesafehouset...ID=20032.topic

[Gorlab]

Posting agro aas and dps aas separately is wrong and a little misleading in my opinion.

You say:
"IF AN ABILITY IS NOT LISTED UNDER HERE, THEN IT WILL NOT HELP YOU KEEP AGGRO ON ANY MOB!"

And then go on to not list all the dps aas. However, increasing your dps will increase your agro so the above statement is FALSE. Further if you look at the aa's listed under agro, Weapon Affinity and Stalwart Endurance are the only ones that do not increase dps.

Ie you should list all the dps aa's together, put weapon affinity and stalwart endurance under the misc category and mention that they will aid in agro (in the case of WA only if you have an agro proc from the weapon and not from an augment of course).

As it is now, the thread is misleading by a pretty wide degree.

[Daabu]

No. No no no.

There is a difference between your DPS and your aggro. More damage does NOT mean more aggro. That's the whole reason I've separated them. Combat Fury will NOT increase your aggro. Flurry will. Sinister Strikes will NOT increase your aggro. Stalwart Endurance will.

Let me recap for you what causes aggro. Your aggro is caused by either:
A) Procs
B) Potential Damage

Increasing your swings increases potential damage. Increasing your average hit per swing, or increasing your attack, or anything that doesnt make you swing an extra time, does not increase your aggro.

Some people have asked that I cross list many of the aggro AAs under DPS so that those tanks who just want to increase their DPS without worrying about aggro train things in the correct order. I'm considering doing that -- but I was waiting for more feedback. I'm probably going to make the change soon, though.

[Quincent]

Awesome post, dude.
I certainly learned a lot

[Mokor Leadheaad]

heh nothing like seeing a finishing blow for 32005 from a offhand hit. took me a while to figure out why a rogue had a 5 db then i remembered ss.

ss increases offhand melee agro quite a bit since their was no db their before.
(if i understand the agro per swing thing)

[Gorlab]

Originally Posted by Daabu

No. No no no.

There is a difference between your DPS and your aggro. More damage does NOT mean more aggro.

Um yes it does, go test it. If you take two identical warriors (use level 5s or so with lots of hp buffs so they live) and have them attack a mob with identical weapons with no procs (rusty sword or some such). Have one warrior with a zero weapon skill and have the other capped. You can even give them an attack buff if you so choose. Now with these two warriors, potential damage is the same, there are no procs and the ONLY difference is dps. The higher dps warrior gets agro every time. I tested this back in velious when I was doing my ac tests, if you do not believe me feel free to test it yourself.

[Goradain]

While this may prove true at level 5, I have yet to see it come into play at higher levels. Most classes are doing more DPS than the MT and do not pull aggro off him. I would have to agree with Daabu on them. They will not make enough difference (if any) to help you hold aggro.