Off hand agro generation

[stez]

I was trying to dig through some stuff here and i was trying to figure out how to determine the average hate generated by an off handed weapon over the course of a minute.

I am sure its specific to the weapon, but lets say you have a Raxkti /w Anger 4 aug off handed, how would i figure this out (max AAs-CE 100)

[Khauruk]

Stein in mainhand, and parse the offhand. Add up swing agro and proc agro. Or, use Yoda's calculator.

[stez]

Ok, sounds easy. i see a chart with proc #s and melee and effiecency, but the word swing agro i need to look harder for i guess.

[Khauruk]

Every time you swing your weapon, you generate agro equivalent to the (base_damage + elemental_damage + damage_bonus + damage_bonus_from_hStr)*hate_mod. Misses and hits are equal agro.

[Aldier]

Damage bonus on the item only contributes to the primary weapon I thought.

So offhand aggro = (base_damage + elemental_damage + damage_bonus_from_hstr) * hate_mod.

Also, if you have the port item to Crescent reach, that item also can go in primary/secondary/range and works as a non-melee item.

[Khauruk]

Originally Posted by Aldier

Damage bonus on the item only contributes to the primary weapon I thought.

So offhand aggro = (base_damage + elemental_damage + damage_bonus_from_hstr) * hate_mod.

Correct on the first point, but I wonder then if Sinister Strikes adds agro?

[stez]

So its like Max hit (non crit) times hate mod ? I never really looked too deep into the numbers before now, but i am curious.

[Khauruk]

No - damage has nothing to do w/ agro. It is the displayed damage on the weapon itself (base plus elemental). So, Keen Edge of Discord, for example, has 67 damage and 11 corruption damage. So, every swing offhand generates 78 agro (before any other parts of the equation).

[Aldier]

Max hit is much higher than the damage of the weapon.

I am using Soldier's Striker in my offhand.

Base dmg = 55
Cold dmg = 10
Delay = 24
Based on my hstr, I get a DB of 8. Observe your highest crit hit and compared to the reported Crit (XX) value and the difference is 8 for me.

My hate mod item I don't have equipped, generally is my evolving sword in primary, removed to only parse offhand.

So my current offhand swing aggro is [(55+10) + 8] = 73. If I had my primary equiped, I would be getting a 20% boost to this at present (22% when max evolved) so swing aggro would be 73*1.2 = 87.6 (73*1.22 = 89.06).

Now if you want to consider the aggro also generated by the procs from offhand, Soldier's Striker has an innate CF5 proc and I have it augged with a CF6 aug. So you would need to add, for every CF5 proc (200+400) = 600 aggro and for every CF6 (225+400) = 625 aggro. With WA7 and CE74, I was getting 2.434 CF5 ppm, and 2.373 CF6 ppm.

2.434 * 600 = 1460.2 hate per minute from CF5 procs
2.373 * 625 = 1482.9 hate per minute from CF6 procs

All that is left is to calculate the number of swings per minute to give you the total swing aggro and add the proc aggros from the proc of the weapon and the anger4 proc (800 hate).

I still am trying to find all the formulas and information and from the sounds of things I do not quite understand how to determine the number of swings per minute in offhand.

Swing_aggro_per_min + 1460.2 + 1482.9 = aggro per minute generated by offhand.

From the looks of the short parses I ran comparing offhand with and without sinister strike, it appears to only be a damage modifier. I do not know if it also generates more aggro.

Without: Max normal hit 476.
With: Max normal hit 488.

This is a .18 increase in the dmg multiplier (subtract hstr DB from max normal hit then divide by dmg on the weapon) = dmg multiplier.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Khauruk

Every time you swing your weapon, you generate agro equivalent to the (base_damage + elemental_damage + damage_bonus + damage_bonus_from_hStr)*hate_mod. Misses and hits are equal agro.

do you have a dev quote or an aggro parse to back up this ? to my knowledge hSTR don't increase aggro.

Originally Posted by stez

Ok, sounds easy. i see a chart with proc #s and melee and effiecency, but the word swing agro i need to look harder for i guess.

in the display, the swing colonns are the hate generated by swings only. if you want the exact hate per swing, you have to go to a calculator sheet and check the colonn HpSW (Hate per SWing).

Originally Posted by Aldier

[...]
Based on my hstr, I get a DB of 8. Observe your highest crit hit and compared to the reported Crit (XX) value and the difference is 8 for me.
[...]
I still am trying to find all the formulas and information and from the sounds of things I do not quite understand how to determine the number of swings per minute in offhand.
[...]
From the looks of the short parses I ran comparing offhand with and without sinister strike, it appears to only be a damage modifier. I do not know if it also generates more aggro.

Without: Max normal hit 476.
With: Max normal hit 488.

This is a .18 increase in the dmg multiplier (subtract hstr DB from max normal hit then divide by dmg on the weapon) = dmg multiplier.

• how many hSTR do you have, and can you check if you have buff or worn effects with the description "Skill Damage Amount", like Cleave VII - 05 for example. because I may have seen that hSTR increase both the reported crit and actual numbers, while this effect increases only the actual damages.
• swing per minute is equal to swing per round times number of rounds per minute.
  number of rounds per "time" seconds is equal to 10 * time / delay * haste / hundred hand
  swing per round is a bitch to get because you need very fine parses. basically, you need a weapon slow enough so that all the rounds are on a single timestamp and recover the rates of doing 1 swing exactely, 2 swings exactely, ... 6 swings exactely (if you have more, then you have multiple melee rounds in the same timestamp... and becarefull not to riposte or it will skrew the parse).
  the formulas used are as follow : check order : dual wield -> double attack -> 2Her AA and triple attack -> flurry chance (only out of TA, not of 2Her AA) -> number of flurry swings.
  which means that you have to find the formulas for each checks. I don't remember the numerical values of those formulas but they are in my calculator. check on the profile sheets the formula under the % of dual wield, double attack, triple attack, blade attack, flurry, and swing per flurry. you can also check how I reconstruct the swing per round number from the formulas providing the chance to do exactly 1 swing, or 2 swings, or... 6 swings per round.
  out of memory, I estimated the global accuracy of the swing per round to be around 3% which is actually a lot more than what be gain from one lvl up...
• when sinister strike was created, a dev said it wasn't increasing the aggro and that it was a damage bonus that scales with delay. we parsed out it was round.down( delay / 3.5 )... so I am quite surprised that it provides you 12 more damages on the max hit instead of the standard 7 (delays from 22 to 27 all have the same DB from SS if it follow this formula)... which weapon did you use ?

[Aldier]

The toon I am using only has Cleave 6 and Fero 6 worn effects. According to the new stat tab I have 82 hstr.

The weapon set up here is non-weapon in first hand, Soldier's Striker in offhand (t7 group war only 1hs)

I have a 45% haste item + potion haste (50%) on a 24 delay weapon.

Since it is only offhand, there are no flurry, 2hander aa. I am not sure about triple attacks from offhand.

Perhaps sinister strike scaled up with a level increase or skill increase in duel wield?

Number of rounds per minute = 10*60/24 * 1.95 = 48.75
Gamparse lists 1 attempt per sec, 2 attempts, up to 5 attempts per sec. Is that the numbers you are talking about needing to calculate swings per round?

If sinister strike is just a DB, hstr is just a DB, then offhand aggro is swing aggro (base dmg + elemental dmg)* hate mod + any proc aggro.

[Yoda]

thanks for the hSTR, it looks like it indeed doesn't change the reported crit.

I forgot to tell you that the round number is always rounded up (because the delay is applied after the swings, so when you auto-attack on you swing immediately, and when you auto-attack off you cut the remaining time before next round). for offhand there is no triple, so with ~49 melee round per minute you should have only "1 attempt per sec" and "2 attempts per sec" in gameparse (and actual parse should reveal almost no "1 attempt per sec" because you should have more than 99% double attack but not yet 100%).

if SS really scales up with level then it will be a real bitch to find out the formula

[Aldier]

I am getting mostly 2 attempts per second. I get very rare occassions of 3/4/5 when I am guessing is lag in the parse.

This is with a weapon in offhand only... 24555 duration, 6.82 hours...

38457 attempts, 27826 hits (73% accuracy)

1 attempt per sec: 31 (.08%)
2 attempts per sec: 18064 (93.94%)
3 attempts per sec: 644 (5.02%)
4 attempts per sec: 89 (.93%)
5 attempts per sec: 2 (.03%)

(31*1)+(18064*2)+(644*3)+(89*4)+(2*5)=38457

Perhaps not with level, but dual wield skill? I don't know if having a higher dual wield skill increases the power of the offhand or just the frequency with which you succeed in hitting with it. That seems like it would be very difficult for them to scale it by level or skill though.

[Khauruk]

Thanks for the hSTR info - I've read it before, but I'd trust your analysis on agro more than the source that I don't recall.

[stez]

Ok was just wanting to know.
If i could hold agro duel wielding vs a burn before UF.
Then with 100k projection should cover me if i use a shield for a while.

I am always curious to the inner math, i just never sat down to start parsing till now.