Epic click

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Kickback

Nice part of the war click is if you make your tank group on raid into a chain. On fights where we need just that extra push, we have timed clicks so that its a continous 800 hp for the duration. I don't think any of the clicks are useless(not sure about ranger) I would just think you have to find the best way to use them. Look at Druids they increase dd's damage for 12 or 18 seconds, hook them up with the wizards, and you have a very powerful little tool.

On side note have noticed the banner didn't stack as well, I felt bad cause I was yelling at the other Wars in my group to epic.

while nice on the paper, this is the worse that can be done for the MT survivability.

[Rigeld]

Originally Posted by Xebeth

Cleric 2.0 click isn't a DA, it ballances all groupmates health by % and then heals everyone for 2khps, quiet usefull as an "Oh Shit' button.

DA also means Divine Arb, which the Cleric 2.0 is.

[Swansong]

Originally Posted by Yoda

while nice on the paper, this is the worse that can be done for the MT survivability.

because?

[Ranger-Tank]

Because, 800hps is just a pretty number when you're over 20k buffed. It doesnt Scale up with the gear. In fact, it's a much betterclick when you're gimp geared. The monk 25% scales up as 25% all the time. If wars had this it'd be an extra 5k hps (20k buffed + 25%) Which would really help in some situations. 800hps is a sneeze out of some mobs.

Epic Clicks in order of usefullness to a war (I.E. I'd like to have):

SHD: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6268
SHM: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6273
CLR: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6265
MNK: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6270
PAL: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6266
BST: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6278
BER: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6279
NEC: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6274
WAR: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6264
ENC: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6277
BRD: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6271
RNG: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6267
DRU: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6269
WIZ: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6275
ROG: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6272
MAG: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6276

The Druid, Wiz, Rog, Mag Epics are last because I dont nuke, have a pet to ubar-buff or Backstab (tripple).

The Top 6 are the epic clicks I'd love to have. After looking at them, tell me if you see any reason why my list is wrong... But it seems to me our click is the 8th out of 16 on the list of really usefull to a war

[daw4888]

List would just vary by differnt people to me, the cleric click is by far the best by leaps and bounds. Since it balances then heals, its effectivly a 12khp heal, that removes detrimnatals.. its roxs

[Swansong]

Originally Posted by Ranger-Tank

Because, 800hps is just a pretty number when you're over 20k buffed. It doesnt Scale up with the gear. In fact, it's a much betterclick when you're gimp geared. The monk 25% scales up as 25% all the time. If wars had this it'd be an extra 5k hps (20k buffed + 25%) Which would really help in some situations. 800hps is a sneeze out of some mobs.

As I've stated before, so is 50hp per rank for Delay Death. So is a 120hp aug. So is each rank of sturdiness. Its the moment when you click your epic, get rounded into purple and divarb lands, and you get back up and carry on tanking that you realise, hot damn, my epic just saved my ass.

I'll keep the 600/800 hp thanks.

Giving us a 25% modifier would be completely whackass disproportionate, especially considering we have the highest (in general) hp count of any class.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Swansong

because?

because as said before 800HP out of 15kHP (or more if you are far past Anguish) is not alot but is quite powerfull as you said (equivalent to the two tiers of delay death AA together).
but actually, this is good only on the paper. Indeed, if you want to increase the survability of the MT by a lot more then you've best reduce the length time of his tanking... it's as simple as that. And to do so you've beter put a bard, a shaman, and a SK in his group to buf his aggro to the limit (correctly buffed by those three classes, a warrior can expect close to twice as much aggro than without the buffs of those three classes), by increasing his aggro by such a magnitude, your raid force will be able to unleash its dps power to a much greater level and thus making a short case of the boss much sooner. And if you are still concerne of the MT survivabilty you should then fill the remaining place in his group with clerics because their epic clicky is rather powerfull to heal a single toon close to the death while all the other one are full HP (assuming they all have 20kHP max, one at 10% and five at 100% => 510% health to be shared among six toons = 85% per toon, plus then the 2k heal for each and it's 10% more for each so 95% for each groupe member => conclusion you've healed someone for 85% out of 20kHP, or 17kHP, with a 0.8s clicky).

actually, the most powerfull part of our clicky is the resit spell component, but since it is self only, there is no point in grouping a pack of warrior to help the MT. actually it would vene be counter productif, since if you time your clicky based on the HP buff, then you won't be able to time the clicky based on some expected nasty spells and thus you are loosing your self advantage in out clicky.

[Swansong]

I agree with what you said Yoda, but I think its misleading to say its the worst thing you can do for tank survivability.

[Frodlin7th]

I'm pretty sure that running a Rogue healing setup would be the worst thing you could do for tank survivability.

[Bedavir]

Originally Posted by Swansong

because?

Warrior click rotations = 800 more hp.
Bard = 300 more ac + overhaste
Cleric = DA + Epic oh shit click (not to mention that healers in group are 5x more likely to react quickly.
Monk aura = ripostes negated on top of increased avoidance

My ideal defensive group if I were the only warrior? War Mnk Bard Cleric Cleric Cleric. Ideal defensive group for 2 tanks? War War Mnk Bard Cleric Cleric. So yeah ... nice on paper if you only care about total hp pool (which really doesn't matter much at all. It's not THE worst group setup, but it's pretty close. On the same note, same class auras bug up very easily if you have more than one running. I hate having 2 wars in the same group because I always end up having my aura disappear mid-fight for that stupid reason.

I still want my epic to steal 800hp from all my group mates and give it to me for one minute. 4000hp would be a nice fluff indeed hehe.

My epic is a novelty that (more often than not) I simply forget to click (because it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things). If i'm tanking something that hurts I generally follow evasive with hold the line. Epic click comes right after that when I actually remember that it's there (which most of the time I don't). If it were on par with monk epic 25% bonus I'd be using it every possible refresh.

[Grayhelm]

I only have the 1.5 but the biggest use it gets is to help group mates beat their HP targets while standing around in the guild hall.

[Maddren]

How about ditch the weak +800 hp for one minute and replace it with a Vie effect.
Trying to remember back to when OoW came out and 1.5's were new, wasent our clicky a vie before getting changed to +hps?

Having a vie effect for one one minute would be much more usefull, and would really = some survivability a bit more inline with other class epics. Not to mention it would remain useful as EQ moves forward.

Just my opinion anyway.

[Grayhelm]

Personally I think it's too late to worry about. +HP as has been pointed out, is useful.

It may not be the most useful epic but it's a useful effect and the increase chance to resist spells helps.

The reason clicky +X hp isn't as useful as +X from AA is that it's situationally available and it can be too late. But I don't think it's a bad effect and I don't think it needs changing. I just forget to use it 95% of the time and end up just using it as I said, to help guild mates get to their 'highest ever HP' targets

[Frodlin7th]

Yeah, I'd think it's been way too long to think about changing it.

[cloudwalker21]

The vie effect that we had was pretty worthless, lets not go back to that please.