Weapon Proc Augs - Hate Values

[Swansong]

Originally Posted by Grayhelm

I read that to mean spells with a -resist modifier generate more hate?

Personally, I think Rashere is reading that code backwards, resisted spells seem to generate more hate for me than unresisted spells, but /shrug he has the code.

If he's right, then CS IV (Resist Adjust: -150) is getting some hate from that resist adjustment?

I read it as :

Enthrall (Level 11 Chanter Mez)

would generate less agro chain casting it on a high level, difficult to mez mob than,

Bewilderment (Level 72 Chanter mez)

when both got resisted.

*Further Edit* Not sure mez is a good example >< , but get what I mean?

[Grayhelm]

But we know spell level doesn't affect the chance for a spell to land - it's caster level which affects that.

Let's do roots, they don't have level restrictions,

Grasping Roots - http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.htm...49&source=Live
Level 2, no resist adjustment

Earthen Roots - http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.htm...92&source=Live
Level 61, -30 resist adjustment

Both of those spells will root a level 75 mob. Both of them will work equally well ignoring the -30 resist adjustment. Which one generates *more* hate?

Reading the comments, the second one does, because the -30 resist adjustment directly causes it to be more likely to land and hence the mob allocates more hate to the attempt. Or rather, reading the notes, it actually reduces the hate from the first one due to the lack of resist adjustment. However, the spell level never comes into the equation.

[Yoda]

no I don't get what you mean Swansong.


what bugs me most in Rashere statement is "The resist type of the spell doesn't factor into aggro". is he saying that if a mob is highly resistant to fire and receive a magic spell it will be treated as a fire spell for aggro? or he is refering to some race specific resist (low magic resistant but stun immune => immunity isn't treated for aggro)? or what?

[Grayhelm]

He means that poison spells don't generate more hate than fire spells (for example), i.e. one type of resist isn't more hateful than another type of resist. The context of the original question explains that in the thread.

[vivamort]

So earlier in this post it was said a CS IV proc for Brael produced 701 hate. Could it be possible that the Stun portion is capped at 400 still given, that there is a 125 point DD and a -150 resist mod?

400 + 125 + 150 = pretty close to 701... maybe an additional hate modifier hidden in there somewhere, or more likely I do not understand this at all?

[Frodlin7th]

Rashere had mentioned that he'd pumped the HP of the mob he was using to test up pretty high, and that could have been what accounted for it.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well this is a very important issue if you ask me. Yoda has it at 400 (for the stun part) in his calculator.

Seems to be some confusion about what Breal said or didnt say:

http://www.evilgamer.net/forums/show...9624#post49624

But he does indicate 701 max ... given its 575 right now in Yoda's agro spreedsheet that seems a fair bit of difference.

Well here is where he does say it:

http://www.evilgamer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2427

I was thinking that EB was 600 not the 700 it is lol, guess dosn't make much difference EB still a bit better cause CS4 needs a million hp mob to get 701 - still might plug in 500 hate for stuns and see if some weapon looks a lot better in the calculator


Wonder if this is true:

Worgador
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And, does the rune proc create aggro and then when you absorb that damage does it create more?

Like lets say its a 400 dmg rune, Is it 400 hate when it procs, and then 400 more if you get hit and absorb 400 dmg? so that would make it 800 hate(i have no clue if it is) which would be better than an EB aug...

[Zaosha]

I am almost positive that Rune aggro only applies once - when the cast/proc goes off and the party is already on the hate list. The open question w/ Rune procs is whether lower ones that don't take hold (say Eulogy or Vish stick + JoE) still create aggro. However, as has been pointed out, the rapidity w/ which these runes are wiped while tanking anything that matters renders this more an of interesting mechanics question rather than a practical concern.

-Zao

[Daze]

one thing i have noticed in practical terms, using Amberpike which has a Rune V proc, i get a load of AE aggro , as well as keeping agro over lumi club and epic EB equipped other warriors, though i did lose a little of the direct agro when i took EB aug out and switched in the big damage / hp plus 7 aug,

currently i use Bbob main with EB aug, and Lumi club offhand with EB aug, and by god i get a LOT of attention from the big nastie,

i'm actually considering re auging epic with agro augs ,a lot less agro but at 3600 or so AC the epic does seem to add to my surviveabilty

we see loads of posts about AC Vs HP , but i seem to survive better, just as 'looking' as opposed to parses, with the AC over 3600 ,as opposed to 3400 ( other stuff,HP Focus ETC ) ,

realistically regardless of parses and all that stuff, i feel more comfortable with higher ac, and it IS a game, soooo

if it makes you feel more comfortable and happy to tank , it's worth doing, AC Vs HP ? so what, if you really lacked you wouldnt be tanking BUT ...............

AGGRO FTW ,

the best thing is that whatever the trick is, the biggest HP and AC in the world is of NO USE if you ain't being hit !

just my thoughts ,

and i've yet to see anyone consistently out agro a Bbob and lumi club both EB auged, at least out of our tanks, except when i EB auged Amberpike :P

[Zartwar]

If an aug is set on it's own proc-rate table, then it stands to reason that if an aug is listed at 400 hate, it might (in a long fight) turn out to be better hate than an aug with 525 hate listed.

If the 400 hate aug procs 3 times per fight, that would be 1200 hate.

If the 525 aug only proc'd 2 times, that is only 1050 hate.

This said, do we know or can we tell that the proc rates per aug is?

[Khauruk]

You could parse proc rates per aug - just have augments of different types (that give different messages on procs), and then it's easy to look for proc rates.

[Bruenorg]

Or you could look at the item "procrate" fields on Lucy.

All non-zero proc rate mods that I am aware of are found on weapons. Also, augs that are inserted into such weapons do not inherit the proc rate mod of the weapon and instead just get the standard rate. I suppose it is possible for augs themselves to have proc rate mods but to my knowledge, there are none that do.

[Zartwar]

Originally Posted by Bruenorg

... All non-zero proc rate mods that I am aware of are found on weapons. Also, augs that are inserted into such weapons do not inherit the proc rate mod of the weapon and instead just get the standard rate. ...

I compared a Rage Moss (anger II 400 hate) to a Faerie Hex (CS-IV 400 hate + 175 proc) aug on Lucy.

All proc rate fields for both are 0's.

Both fields for procmods are blank.

The only "logical" differences (not counting item ID, image#.. etc etc) is the Aug Value

Rage Moss Aug Value is 8 - IIRC this takes a solution of XV to remove from a weapon.

Faerie Hex aug Value is 136 - IIRC this takes a solution of XVIII to remove from a weapon.

This may be what the aug values relate to, unless i missed something.

[Yoda]

and what's your point Zartwar ? that the cost of the distillate is dependant on the aug type ?

[Zartwar]

Originally Posted by Yoda

and what's your point Zartwar ? that the cost of the distillate is dependant on the aug type ?

My point is to try and figure out if the augs themselves have a proc rate that isn't dependant on the weapon they go in.

I pointed out the differences between those 2 augs on the Lucy numbers as a starting point.