Disease Counters For Dummies

[kkrunch]

Hello,

I have a Newbie question from a non newbie. I just have never understood two items and wonder if anyone out there that is gifted in explaining things can give me two simiple answers that I can print out and paste on the wall (and if the answer is, "Hey stupid, only casters need to understand this stuff", would you mind explaining it anyway).

1. Counters; ie: Disease counters. I have no idea what they are, how they work or why I need to understand them? How can I use this information to improve my game play?

2. Resist Checks; I see spells that say resist check, magic -30...another says resist check magic -60. What exactly does that mean? Which one is better or worse of the two? How can I use the understanding of these to improve my game play?

I have been playing for a while, and have just let these questions ride.

I really appreciate any help here. If they sound like dirt stupid questions, and I am the only one that doesn't understand them....I am prepared to take the hit.

Thank'ees

Kkrunch

[Shirion]

Answer to question 1.


Most debuff have counters; for example Random_Disease_Debuff has 36 disease counters. Random_DiseaseCure01 removes 6 disease counters per cast. It would require 6 casts of Random_DiseaseCure01 to cure it. Though some debuff don't have counters; usually take a Radiant Cure 1-6(AA levels) to cure it.


The numbers I used here are completely random. Though a lot of debuffs are 36 counters; cures are usually more then 6.

[Morose]

1. Disease(poison and curse too) counters are just a way to control how 'strong' a dot is. The more counters the dot has the harder it is to cure. You also apply this same knowledge to the cures. Every cure tells you how many counters it will cure. Your total cures must add up to the dots counter level to cure it. So a 12 counter dot will need 12 counters worth of cures. This could be a one shot cure from a 12 or more counter cure or 3 hits from a 4 counter cure. From a war perspective this knowledge isn't very important. At most, I think it just gives you a good idea of whether asking for a cure or waiting the 3 mins(or whatever its lasting for) for the dot/debuff to wear off is the most convenient action.

2. Resist checks are just that, when a spell is cast the caster's level is checked vs the targets as well as the appropriate resists. Some formulae is applied and a random is done and now your either hit with the spell or you resist it. A negative mod on the resist effectively lowers the targets resist by that much, giving them less chance to resist it. So a lower mod(-60 is lower then -30 since we're dealing with negatives) is the better of the two.

-Players haveing spells with better mods helps them land spells on the more resistant mobs. Knowing what resist a mob is vulnerable and what resist and mod is applied to each spell is key to finding a spell that will help. A good expample of this is slow. Shaman's have a magic based slow line as their primary slows. If they know that magic will never land on the mob then they can use their alternative disease based slow lines.

-Mob AEs have resists and mods on them as well. Knowing what they are can help you in your buffing. If the mob has a neg 350 mr mod for example and buffed you don't even break 350 your not going to have anything but the minimum 5% chance to resist it. So you can save a buff slot on an MR buff. Along the same lines knowing what resist is checked will help decide if you need other buffs to help the fight. If the mob only uses fire AEs then you might make sure seasons is available to buff up fire resists.


None of this information is really 'Needed' to play well. It all falls under the category of awareness and prepardness. Resists are still subject to the RNG and so you should always plan to have at least some of them land on any given fight.

[Candien]

http://www.ecipublic.org/viewtopic.php?t=7350

Everything you want to know about curing/resists

[kkrunch]

It is amazing what information is out there and thank you for your responses.

I have counters down pat....and that link is the shiz nitz.

However, on the resists, I still am a little foggy.

I think it is like this:

Shammy casts a slow on a mob...it says on the spell ...resists Magic -60.

I think this means that if the mob has an inherent Magic resist of 60 or less...the spell will probably land (and I suppose there is some random chance it will fail no matter what).


So...If I understand this correctly, I can find in the Lucy database the resist check for each and every spell a player may cast.


But what about the Mobs resists? How can I know in advance what a certain mobs resists are to help me understand which spells will land and which will not? I have looked at Alla's Beastiary and there is no Resist info there.

Is there a mob database somewhere that will tell you what resists and counters each mob has??

Thanks again for the help.

Kkrunch

[Yakk]

You can't know what a mob's resists are.

You have to try your spells out, and figure out which one is best.

Is there a mob database somewhere that will tell you what resists and counters each mob has??

Your use of "counters" here confuses me, and makes me think you don't understand desease/poison counters.

So here goes.

You land a debuff on a mob.
By default, a cast of "dispell magic" will remove the debuff, unless the debuff has counters (or is flagged non-dispellable).
If the debuff has counters, the counters have to be removed, and then the debuff goes away. A debuff with counters is unaffected by dispell magic spells.

There are 3 kinds of counters:
desease, poison and curse.
and there are various spells that remove the above kinds of counters.

Slows where given desease counters so they could be cured without dispelling buffs or other debuffs on the mob.

[Morose]

Originally Posted by kkrunch

Shammy casts a slow on a mob...it says on the spell ...resists Magic -60.

I think this means that if the mob has an inherent Magic resist of 60 or less...the spell will probably land (and I suppose there is some random chance it will fail no matter what).

All it means is that the spell will have a better chance of landing. It lowers the effect level of the mobs resist when it is checked by 60. So if the mob has an innate resist of 200 mr then when the spell is cast it will check as if the mob has a resist of 140 mr.

Originally Posted by kkrunch

So...If I understand this correctly, I can find in the Lucy database the resist check for each and every spell a player may cast.

Yes. The spell listings will tell you what the spell checks against and any mods it might have.

Originally Posted by kkrunch

But what about the Mobs resists? How can I know in advance what a certain mobs resists are to help me understand which spells will land and which will not? I have looked at Alla's Beastiary and there is no Resist info there.

Is there a mob database somewhere that will tell you what resists and counters each mob has??

I agree that your understanding of counters seems iffy here. Mobs don't have counters. Spells have counters.

As for the resists, I don't know of any database that tries to cover hard numbers on resists. Allakhazam has a nice mob database and you can find posted info on many of the mobs that will give qualitative information like "Mob is very MR resistant. Might want to try to land Dis." or "Didn't land a magic slow the whole fight." For the most part you have to research or learn for yourself what sticks and doesn't.

[Phantron]

You do not know what resists a mob has, but you can guess by experience. For example if a mob ever resists Anger proc (MR -400) then it has AT LEAST 400 MR and indeed you shouldn't ever expect to land any magic spells on it. Beyond that, mob resists work the same way as players. A mob with 200ish MR will rarely be affected by MR spells with no adjustment just as a player with 200 MR will rarely be affected by any MR spells with no adjustment (nukes tend to break this rule and land for a trivial damage as opposed to outright resisted). There are special spell specific and mob specific modifiers to resist that cannot be understood by just looking at the spell.

[Aramelus]

Resist checks aren't that straightforward.

If you have a spell with a neg60 resist check, it just means that it's more difficult to resist than a spell with a zero resist check

Lots of high end raid encounters have AEs with neg450 or neg500 resist checks, which make them very difficult to resist even with 600 resists.

If lucy says the spell is neg1000 resist check, it's basically unresistable but one could still theoretically resist it. That's different from being listed as "unresistable" which simply cannot be resisted, at all.

There are other factors such as the level of the spell caster vs. the victim, DoN AA, and a bit of luck.

[Phantron]

All spells can have a chance to resist modified by the mob casting it, and beyond just a simple level check too.

For example several GoD AEs that save on impossible saves (for the time) can be resisted 100% because they're accidentally flagged as always resistable (Fulmination, Cataclysm of Stone). Yarlir's Icicle Blizzard is another example. I have resisted Ground Pound which saves at MR - 10000 (that's 4 zeroes).

On the other hand you also have stuff that are harder than it appears to resist, like Cazic Thule's Aura of Fear. Classically Enchanters mobs used to get a flat chance to land any spell regardless of resists is another good example.

[kkrunch]

Thank for all the info.

As far as a mob database, what I meant re: mob counters; I was wondering about mob x and the spells he/she casts....It would be nice to know difinitively what type and how many counters were associated with any spells mob x may cast in advance of a fight. That way you would be able to know in advance what curative actions could be taken by the player.

Thanks for all the fine responses.

/salute


Kkrunch

[Shirion]

You can look up spells on Lucy. If you go to the data it usually lists the counters. If you're looking for the spells mobs cast, Alla is probably the best.

[Morose]

Alla is good for mob spells. But just a note, alla only lists AEs and Special single target spells. If a mob is a cleric or wizard or any other class that can cast spells, it will have the full gambit of that classes spells for the mobs level available to cast on you. Alla won't list those. Usually those spells are easy to resist and are not game breakers. Just an fyi.