A thought about the HP vs AC debates

[Fenris2k]

I read some topics about the X AC = Y HP. A thing that came to my mind is that X AC worn is not the same as the amount of AC on the item (and same for the HP).

I'm at work atm, so I can't do a rough estimation of the bonuses.. but I think I have like 1.6*item AC=worn AC and 1.2*item HP = "worn" HP..

This would make AC (when comparing actual items) "even less" valuable, since the 1.6 > 1.2.. but how much, is another question.

EDIT: The above could be a bit ambigious. I mean, since all estimations of X AC = Y HP are not based on the item-stats, a more accurate way would be to say that X AC = (1.2/1.6)*Y HP

[Shmashed]

I believe its 1.6 and 1.15(from nd3 10% + pd3 5%)

Most these 1 ac= x hp comparisons are dodgy at best. I think when it comes down to it everyone will agree it really depends upon the warrior, and the mob you are fighting that second. I think when most peopel say 1 ac = 6 hp or whatever, they are talking about 1 ac on an item vs 6 hp on an item.

[Phantron]

I always thought of 1 AC = X HP in terms of AC displayed because that's the number we end up seeing, and convert item AC to displayed AC appropriately.

It's a huge myth that AC vs HP tradeoff depends on the mob you're fighting because there hasn't been any interesting melee mob in EQ for a very long time. Everything you fight these days has a max that's either 4 or 5 times the min after 35% shielding and they're all equally incapable of killing you by melee. Having high or low attack just moves you up or down on the AC mitigation line. It doesn't change the effectiveness of AC relative to HP at all.

GoD and PoP used to have meaningful decision on HP vs AC because there are stuff that hit so hard relative to your total HP you can't expect to live without a defensive (which actually favors HP because defensive acts more like HP then AC, while Evasive behaves more like AC than HP). There are stuff that does a significant amount of damage on MT through spells (Reparm, Pixxt Riel, spider guy in Air). There are stuff with hugely different max/min ratios. You've for example the fiends in FR event which either can hit for like 300-2000 or 1000-1300, or Anueks in Txevu that hits for basically 1000 every hit. You even have stuff that have hugely elevated to hit (Kyv named in early GoD that was quickly nerfed to oblivion). Even for Joe Average you have Chaos Claws to deal with which completely ignores AC and is a significant chunk of damage. You simply don't have this in DoN or OoW.

[rikam]

Uhm Phantron when they say the mob you are fighting atm I think that has to do with like Velious era mobs actualy had an AC amount where they would seriously drop off their hits at(1300 for chain i dont remmeber plate). As such each other expansion since then has it's own sort of ac niche where getting more doesn't really do you any good.

I would say it is no where near 3300ac for most any expansion till GoD and maybe not even there. Anyway I go with 1ac = 5 hp but that usualy is applying to augs like I don't trade a 25 ac aug for 90 hp obviously and stuff like that nature. I always use the raw whats on the item label when comparing I think some people are reading a whole lot more into what is a simple formula to help with gear discisions.

We do not tank mobs for you thats your job as such we really can't sayt what kind of comparision you would use if you are in a guild clearing NToV obviously having 2700ac won't really help you as much as how many ever hp you can hoarde. Seriously taking the game way too serious if you are trying to brea down numbers like that is all I am saying.

[Naubi]

I think ac is better if you are being healed by a HoT or 'HoT like' effects... hp if you are being directly healed (especially by large regular heals).

[Kazak]

A warrior without both is a sad warrior

[Brabble]

Well, it seems to me that among other things pointed out in previous threads on this topic is that this question most directly occurs in terms of augments, where you're either putting X AC in that slot or Y hps.
That's because broadly speaking armor lines with better AC have better hitpoints, too.
The AC/hp aug question is also pretty much confined to lvl 70 folks, because under that your slots probably have room for a good AC aug and a good hitpoint aug (or, if you're talking about LDoN augs, the AC stuff is so much more bang for the buck that it's not an issue).
Once in a while you might get an armor drop that makes you scratch your head, trying to figure out whether it would be an upgrade. But at that point, all kinds of other factors jump in: whether it's a roll or a bid, whether you feel like you need more work on hps or AC, etc. Sometimes you could take an upgrade that was a bit off your "ideal" ratio (say, it favors AC over hitpoints) if you have a reasonable expectation that there's a second upgrade in your future that would be complementary (say, favors hps over AC).
The variables are pretty numerous when you're talking about gear, because in any kind of bid system, you've got to contemplate not only what you're wearing now and the drop itself, but what other drops might be coming in the future that you could otherwise spend your points on.

Incidentally, outside of the context Phantron mentions above, my impression is that AC is a lot more like defensive than evasive, since AC does not allow you to avoid the mob's DB but rather mitigates the mob's DI.
The real problem comparing AC to hitpoints is that you've got resources to avoid a hit, resources to mitigate the hits that land, and then you've got more gobal resources that increase your overall survivability. Hitpoints are a gobal resource in that sense, because they sit on top of both your mitigation resources and your "avoid the hit" resources. While you can reduce all of these differences to "likelihood mob X won't kill me" and in that sense compare them, AC and hitpoints do different things for you in different ways.