Is there any real difference ?

[Whulfgar]

Originally Posted by Quillium

This obsession and fallacy of yours that a tank gears differently for group and for raid is quite amusing.

I find this ironic as you stated your weapons auged for faster grp kills .. yet you do not change it out in raids?

the irony is deep on this ..

[Mendler]

hhmm he doesn't have issues with agro..... why would he?

No irony just you trying to drudge up something that isn't there.../golfclap

[Quillium]

Originally Posted by Whulfgar

I find this ironic as you stated your weapons auged for faster grp kills .. yet you do not change it out in raids?

the irony is deep on this ..

You have pretty bad reading comprehension skills. Sorry, you just do. I've been solidly consistent in everything i've been saying.

I use a BBB with a 10 DMG aug at all times, group or raid. Agro on raid is never, ever an issue, especially with raid bosses(you could hold agro with a rusty toothpick on a raid boss given UA/Proj), so i see no reason to modify. I allready have enough to deal with(i'm also often healing on raid via the shaman if needed), without micromanging bandolier setups.

[kkrunch]

Originally Posted by Yoda

kkrunch... mob's riposte doesn't exist anymore

For reals? How did this get by me. I don't parse so am glib on this. Guess there is no reason to use anything but my Glory with the 10 dmg aug for any situation; tanking or dps, since aggro isnt a issue with me.

Observationally, I can see a mob slow down on hitting me when I turn attack off. Wonder what that is if it isn't riposte?

Kk

[Yraen]

Originally Posted by Yoda

kkrunch... mob's riposte doesn't exist anymore

Not entirely accurate. Mobs still riposte, just every melee class has been given an AA similar to Return Kick that negates ripostes.

Enrage does not exist anymore (except on random mobs and fableds), however.

[Whulfgar]

Quillium ,

What is your sustained DPS on the raid event .. in Sarith ? Good ol fashioned 1 big boss at the end .. no fades .. no tricks other then a tank an spank .

Whats your dps on that mob ?

[Yoda]

do we know what merciless blade do ?

[Quillium]

Originally Posted by Whulfgar

Quillium ,

What is your sustained DPS on the raid event .. in Sarith ? Good ol fashioned 1 big boss at the end .. no fades .. no tricks other then a tank an spank .

Whats your dps on that mob ?

Before or after it starts climbing the walls and bouncing around the area like a crack addict??

If you even understand how Warrior DPS works, our DPS is highly dependent on how long the fight goes due to everything being frontloaded. The faster the fight and closer it gets to our initial burst, the better our dps and the more it resembles our burst damage. The longer a fight goes, the more the initial burst gets averaged out, and it decays towards our sustained.

I just find it funny that you seem so obsessed over my dps. Its really that important to you?

[Whulfgar]

Originally Posted by Quillium

Before or after it starts climbing the walls and bouncing around the area like a crack addict??

If you even understand how Warrior DPS works, our DPS is highly dependent on how long the fight goes due to everything being frontloaded. The faster the fight and closer it gets to our initial burst, the better our dps and the more it resembles our burst damage. The longer a fight goes, the more the initial burst gets averaged out, and it decays towards our sustained.

I just find it funny that you seem so obsessed over my dps. Its really that important to you?

I completely understand our dps and how it works. I can not for the life of me tho understand why you refuse to answer a completely understood question.

What is your dps on the boss mob last mob in the entire raid .. for Sarith ?

If you feel that I am not understanding something by all means explain all you want. I hold no issues for anyone who wants to explain or possibly teach me anything in game.

But I am still wondering why you refuse to answer an extremely easy question. Whats your raid dps on that mob ?

[Rildoan]

Originally Posted by Whulfgar

What is your dps on the boss mob last mob in the entire raid .. for Sarith ?

Higher than yours.

/thread

[Whulfgar]

Originally Posted by Rildoan

Higher than yours.

/thread

No doubt Ril, thats what I am attempting to find out here with that dps aug in his weapon and me just an aggro aug ..

[Quillium]

Originally Posted by Whulfgar

I completely understand our dps and how it works. I can not for the life of me tho understand why you refuse to answer a completely understood question.

What is your dps on the boss mob last mob in the entire raid .. for Sarith ?

If you feel that I am not understanding something by all means explain all you want. I hold no issues for anyone who wants to explain or possibly teach me anything in game.

But I am still wondering why you refuse to answer an extremely easy question. Whats your raid dps on that mob ?

Its somewhere between 0 and OMGHOLDTHEFREAKINGMOBSTEADY.

I figured you would have understood from the earlier post that its not really a reliable mob to get a good parse on. I did focus on Captain Rysen for you though to give you some numbers.

/GU Captain Rysen in 42s, --- Quillim 1251k @36794dps

Tserrina is really the only raid boss that can provide reliable numbers, at least the way we do her. Usually we just go a group on her(usually melee dps), a group on Mayong(caster dps) and everyone else just clears adds. Burn on her at the start, adds when they balance, casters finish off Mayong. So you can get a good view of both burst and sustained and I usually tank her.

It turns out tonight we ended up with like 7 bards on between alts/mains that were looking for credit, so we were passing them around like candy and I finally got one along with my shaman. What follows is the parse on Quill:

/GU Tserrina Syl`Tor in 414s,--- Quillim + pets 9120k @22082dps

[Battleblade]

Originally Posted by Quillium

Tserrina is really the only raid boss that can provide reliable numbers, at least the way we do her.

In short, the kind of raid boss mobs where Q's gearing approach clearly pays off are few and far between - as few and far between as a Warrior being in a Bard, Shaman, Berserker, etc. DPS group when raiding.

And even IF your raid day featured such silliness as Killing Spree on practically all the time (it's off practically all the time in raids) and aggro procs didn't matter at all (or you weren't the guy tanking) THEN...

from a DPS viewpoint:

In tier 3 Resplendant Cleaver > Beast Bone Blade (yep Q would do more DPS with teh Cleaver)
In tier 4 Glory > Witless

Yes OP, there's a difference. One wants the right aug on the right weapon for the situation in front of you - unless every boss mob is like Tserrina and trash clears provide continuous mobs where you get to keep killing spree up most of the time.

It's one thing to say X augged with Y works for me in most of the content I do (spending a lot of time AAing my alt Shaman).

It's quite another to throw it out as a superior fits all approach especially as non-raiders would be well advised to stay miles and miles away from it (Splitbone Blade of Destruction type of weapons are for casters who have Warrior twinks and think DPS > all. Non-raiding Warriors should use aggro augged aggro weapons fo sho).

I'm looking forward to Yoda being able to let us know what his calculator says the best aggro setup and the best DPS setup is in tier 3 and tier 4.

I'm pretty certain in tier 4 it's

Tanking weapon - Witless plus MKraggs, Rib, or Sapphire <- AGGRO augs even if 2 of them have a little more damage on them in addition to aggro.

DPS weapon - Glory plus 10 DMG aug. Might also be OK tanking in group content if you are grouped with waaay undergeared Berserkers/Rogues etc.

Nice pie chart btw.

[Rildoan]

In short:

1) Sarith is a horrible event to measure sustained DPS. If the boss fight takes longer than 3 minutes of defensive, you're doing it all wrong.

2) I disagree with BB's sentiment. Tserrina is a mob that, because of the length of time needed to finish that event, skews any warrior DPS towards sustained. But, if your guild go balance from the outset you'll never see your burst DPS parses. Remember Lilth last phase? I've hit top 10 on parse by hitting the right buttons in the right time - without any ADPS support; it's a very short fight that plays to our front-loaded DPS.

3) Tanking weapon - the only time agro really matters is when you're not using an actual weapons-only aug (read: any stats-only aug) on the BBB/Witless. There is no reason the 10 DMG aug off Hornmaster is not an agro aug! For christ sake, there is no reason Cleaver/Glory is not an agro weapon!

Just to show how idiotic BB's argument is, I've tanked SS4 with a pure DPS set with no agro loss. Ever. Weapon with agro augs = designed for tanking, weapon with dmg augs = DPS? So fucking LOL.

Tired strawman argument is tired strawman. What's the difference between riding 5 million hate over the next highest player with an all-DPS weapon-aug setup, and 50 million hate over with a pure agro setup? Nothing. It's when you lose agro that it matters what you use. Otherwise? Hell no.

[Desthin]

Originally Posted by Rildoan

In short:

1) Sarith is a horrible event to measure sustained DPS. If the boss fight takes longer than 3 minutes of defensive, you're doing it all wrong.

2) I disagree with BB's sentiment. Tserrina is a mob that, because of the length of time needed to finish that event, skews any warrior DPS towards sustained. But, if your guild go balance from the outset you'll never see your burst DPS parses. Remember Lilth last phase? I've hit top 10 on parse by hitting the right buttons in the right time - without any ADPS support; it's a very short fight that plays to our front-loaded DPS.

3) Tanking weapon - the only time agro really matters is when you're not using an actual weapons-only aug (read: any stats-only aug) on the BBB/Witless. There is no reason the 10 DMG aug off Hornmaster is not an agro aug! For christ sake, there is no reason Cleaver/Glory is not an agro weapon!

Just to show how idiotic BB's argument is, I've tanked SS4 with a pure DPS set with no agro loss. Ever. Weapon with agro augs = designed for tanking, weapon with dmg augs = DPS? So fucking LOL.

Tired strawman argument is tired strawman. What's the difference between riding 5 million hate over the next highest player with an all-DPS weapon-aug setup, and 50 million hate over with a pure agro setup? Nothing. It's when you lose agro that it matters what you use. Otherwise? Hell no.

+1 to everything in post....