Pally stun changes

[gulug]

on test server it appears cease and desist have been changed so they cant be cast on mobs over level 55.

lol even though some pallys are saying so what, no big deal we still have 4-5 other stuns we can use and it wasnt right that a such low level /mana cost spells were being used to get aggro, its funny to see so many cry Nerf! sheesh.

[Hussar]

Technically it is a nerf. One that definately should happen. They still have stuns to use, and above 55 those 2 spells are useless against mobs other than aggro. So they're making pallys use spells designed for those mobs, which is definately a good thing.

[Rumblingdeth]

Why should a spell that a mob is immune to add aggro is my question?! They obviously shouldn't, by any stretch of the imagination. Warriors have it bad, very bad right now, as do rogues, and monks. PoP screwed the pure melees, and we are still waiting for a fix.

[Synapticus]

Gosh you're bitter Rumble

[Rumblingdeth]

Your on the wrong board Knight, of course you love seeing a competing class completely screwed. Warriors have just begun rumbling, wait till hit really hits the fan. Sony is going to further nerf knight aggro to where it should be.
>Charm was screwing groups, look what happened. Why group when you can get an AA every 20 minutes?
>Soloing was more profittable than grouping look what is going to happen.
>Same with Knights aggro, nerfs are just trickling in, well deserved ones at that.
Right now aggro is trivial for Knights, it should not be that way. People DON'T want to play with skill, no matter how often you lie and say they do. They want tanks with unlimited aggro control, so they can unload at will without worring about deaths. Why wouldn't they feel this way? The whole game as been "dumbed down" for a long time. Is it any surprise the people who played the "dumbed down" game want it easy?

[Raaj]

Technically it is a nerf. One that definately should happen. They still have stuns to use, and above 55 those 2 spells are useless against mobs other than aggro. So they're making pallys use spells designed for those mobs, which is definately a good thing.

Yeah, heh its a big nerf - but not a good thing. Lots of guilds use paladins to stun-agro adds until they can get a mez on them, since it wont break the mez.

[Rumblingdeth]

And what is wrong with just tanking the adds? Why do we want the raid, one MA, one cleric CH wheel, and 25 nukers? What are the tanks supposed to do that aren't the MA in a raid?

[Jear]

Rumbling seems to think there is only one class that should tank and in my eyes doesn't akknowlage Paladin and SKs as tanks, but as some sort of cleric necro sub class super somethng. LOL paladins and SKs are tanks. Pop might be hard against pure melees. Other areas have been hard against others. They will try and do some sort of balance but instead of rambling NERF NERF NERF they thinking about some sound selution about how to fix it with out ofsetting tanking of big mobs.
Paladins tank using stuns. SKs tank using snare/agro increese in numbers. Removing 1 damage free stun from paladins usage only increese SKs as tanks and doesn't make warriors more wanted as Mez mob tankers.

[Phantron]

Maybe now Paladins will actually use stuns that cost mana like Force of Akilae and the 10 second stun that I have seen used something like 2 times (or might be even 1) in all the XP groups I have ever been in. Maybe now stuns will actually be used to stun as opposed to this magic way of getting way too much aggro (maybe mobs are really insulted by the fact that you're trying cast a spell they're immune to? Yeah right)

And maybe, just maybe, having unlimited aggro control power will actually cost you mana now, so it's either take a Warrior who can always do what he's supposed to with some reliablity, or take a Paladin who can always do what he's supposed to but needs a med break every five minutes if you want him to lock down mobs so that your wizzys can chain cast SoS.

[Dakkin]

If they were concerned about knight aggro in general they'd also adjust clinging darkness so SKs can't aggro high level mobs with it.

More likely they want to specifically remove paladin' ability to lock down aggro permanently by chain stunning for zero net mana loss.

My guess is either they intend to adjust the balance between paladins and SKs as group tanks a little (there are a LOT of paladins coming up on my server compared to SKs), or they've caught one too many guilds trivialising non-defensive raid encounters with permanent aggro locked on paladin MTs.

But that's just a guess.

[Kaesorn]

Look on Lucy (http://lucy.fnord.net), it announces when updates to spells go on. Recently they've been toying with the snare percentages on Test. My guess (don't take as the truth tho, this is merely my opinion) is they're seeing how difference percentages work and don't work with agro. There might be an upcoming nerf for snare agro in the future.

[Varatho]

FYI:






This nerf is a myth.





The change was in the spell to say it would only stop level 55 and lesser mobs. It can still draw aggro from whatever mob of any level that it is cast on.






That is all.

[Tasso]

max1 55

my spells that have that field get a your target looks unaffected on it


for instance
max1 0
is on force
that can be cast on mobs up to 65th lvl but wont afftect them



where as
wake of tranquility has

max1 60

anything above 60th lvl gets a your target is unaffected message.


gonna go test this real quick... easy to test out.

[Phantron]

Lucy is not able to parse every change that's put in the game. It's a good place to start, but just because you don't see it on Lucy doesn't mean it's not there.

[Dakkin]

/agree Phantron. This is a little off topic but:

SKs use snares for snap aggro in exactly the same way paladins use(d) stuns, by chain casting cheap mana low level spells to build aggro.

If they wanted to nerf SK snare aggro they'd do it the same way they're doing it to paladins, i.e. nerf clinging and engulfing darkness to stop you casting them on high level mobs.

The movement rate reductions look small enough to be done for some other reason, like maybe allowing druid/ranger snares to overwrite necro snares in groups.

So, I reasoned that the paly stun nerf was there either to try to make them a little less desirable than SKs, or stop guilds trivialising non-defensive raids with huge, endless mana free paly stun aggro.

[Glatius2]

The change was in the spell to say it would only stop level 55 and lesser mobs.

There was a message added to the spell display that tells you that it won't stop level mobs over level 55. It is purely informational. The actual casting does not seem to have changed at all. The message just tells people with the spells exactly what had previously been known but not indicated on the spells, that they won't actually stop mobs over level 55.

Now unless someone from test can confirm that cease and desist are no lonber castable on mobs over level 55, then there is no nerf.

[Varatho]

Damnit Glatius I just said it was a myth :p


Go read on PoN to find the post that said it slacker :D

[Cozlo]

Why should a spell that a mob is immune to add aggro is my question?!
The same reason sarnak warhammer (stun) adds aggro when the mob is immune.

The fact they are immune doesn't change the fact it will piss them off if they're hit with it.

Wielding SW/Frosty in PoN, the only person I compete with for aggro is the slower, unless the nukers in the group are complete morons (admittedly, this happens more and more often). And virtually all the mobs there are immune to the SW stun proc.

[Hyardgune]

Yeah, be careful what you wish for when it comes to nerfing.

How many of us without access to EB use stun proc weapons for aggro purposes? I know I do. There aren't many snare/darkness proc weapons, but if we have them, we use them for aggro. Anyone care to have those weapons stop working for aggro?

Is a paladin using low level stuns to control aggro frustrating to most of the warrior community? Yes. Guess what, those aren't even their best aggro spells. I have 3 words for you - Flash of Light. I've offtanked a mob, done a couple k of damage, dropped a few stuns in from my GoT, had a paladin walk up, cast Flash, it was like I had never even existed. 12 mana spent.

As frustrated as we all may be, remember that a nerf like that impacts a lot of us too.

[Surlok]

Easy enough to test .Log onto Test.

Make Paladin.Type /testbuff bling bling lvl 25 with both cease and desist in your inventory...

Now go find a LvL 60 NPC..your guild leader should be fine.Cast spell.If he kills you it still works.

[faederya]

62 lvl Pali stun spell (http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=3245&source=Live)

But look at this spell. No mana, instant re cast, 1 second casting with a -45 MR resist :/

I want one


EDIT... oops just saw this ...
Recast Time: 12

Anyways, I wish I had an auto proc every 12 seconds :)

[Madronedorf]

Little Background....

The stun messages have *always* been bugged in one form or another,

Sometimes it says the mob is immune, when its not immune at all and really does get stunned...

Sometimes its says its immune but its only immune do to stun lvl cap on spell...

For example Eoms in VT give a stun immune message with Divine Stun, but the stun still works on them.. Hell If I remmeber right it actually *lands* on boss's even tho it gives the message...

And yes becareful what you wish for....

Snarak Warhammer to Sod, to BBToE to Blackout and many other commonly thought of warrior aggro weapons rely on a stun that has the same level limit as Cease/Desist.....

[cuedyen2]

Apothes has already gone onto the test server - it still aggroes higher then lvl 55 mobs. Thats assuming, of course, they just were not pissed off having a level 25 paladin in the vicinity.

But, digressing aside, I do think all casters spell should progress - to include paladins. Would it hurt? Just a wee bit, but sometimes it has to hurt to improve a situation. I sure know there were a lot of happy paladins (myself included) when monks/wizards got nerfed.