Warriors, what happened?

[Zackulle]

I quit playing the game probably 3 months or so ago, at that time I would log on and get several tells to join a group within 30 minutes (or less) of being lfg. Now I log on and simply put I dont get groups... ever. I see alot of threads talking about warriors needing to be fixed, which I agree with, they've needed to be fixed for a long time now. But what changed that made us so undesireable over hybrids?

I know hybrids can hold agro over us, but they could a few months ago too... so uh whats different now?

[pino]

most of warriors blame knights for not getting groups...
that's not true imho.
knights have the same problem, believe it or not.

Do you really think that knights log in, type /lfg and get a group ?
I have few paladins and shadowknight friends ( in my guild ), well trust me they have hard time gettin group just like me ( if not more).

it's hard to get a group nowdays, doesnt matter what class you are ...

and to answer your question " But what changed that made us so undesireable over hybrids?" :

Nothing.

[Superchum]

Casters started soloing, duoing and trioing in the planes of power, for gobs and gobs of XP. The kicker? They were doing it without the use of melees.

Not all casters, mind you. Just enough that it started to have an effect on the LFG situation.

The ability to either not get hit, or just CH a pet, made XP much easier to acquire without the high "maitenance" costs of keeping melees upright against monsters that hit so damn hard.

Add to that the fact that at level 60 most people are already in tight knit groups of friends or guilds that will support your climb from 60 to 65, and grouping just got really really scarce.

It's pretty much hit or miss.

I mean, there's good weeks and bad weeks. I can go an entire week without getting in a group and that can get frustrating. Then I can log on and get blitzed with tells to come here or go there and XP opportunities just start to flow.

The lack of solo-ing even for BAD XP at those levels also plays a part.

All together, the game got kinda boring for a lot of people.

Upcoming patches are looking to TRY and do something about this phenomenon.

How successful these patches are actually going to be remains to be seen.

[Ladiiesman]

Quite simply the problem is Planes of power.

-Mobs have fewer hp so fights are shorter so they can nuke constantly

-mobs hit much much harder so caster aggro is way more dangerous.

-knights have sick snap aggro and so can keep the casters safe

-since fights are so short, the extra mana used to heal a knight vs a warrior isnt a big deal

-and the biggest reason is that ist become fashionable to say "i prefer knights as tanks" even by people who never had a problem previously with warriors.

-since casters can chain nike without going oom and knights can grab a mob with no problem that means faster kills and faster xp.

-the situation was always like this but PoP and "less hp more dps" mobs have really exposed it.

[Frodlin7th]

1. The nature of the experience encounters has changed, making the relative importance of aggro generation artificially high.

2. While knights always had the aggro advantage, they historically paid for it with significantly worse tankability and lesser equipment. Neither of these is any longer an issue, and due to #1, this has changed.

[Synapticus]

Pino, I have to disagree. Ask any Shaman or Enchanter, and they will tell you who they prefer in XP group as tank.

[pino]

Superchum got it right in my opinion.

If you really think that nerfing knights and/or upgrading warriors will solve our problems in getting groups, i am sorry friends...it's not so easy and yes , you are wrong.

Don't misunderstand me, i am NOT saying Warriors and Knights are balanced, this is a different topic.

[Raunstonecutter]

Maybe I'm just off the norm here, but two times I have replace a Knight in a tank as a group, and both times the groups have complimented me as making the group better. This has been in the past two weeks at level 64 and 65.

The real problem I see with finding groups, is having higher level tanks LFG at the same time, and limited grouping options for the most part. Atleast that's what I have been seeing since PoP came out and I was 57.

[Redhenna]

Knights being a prefered choice to tank is a problem with getting a group. Watch in your lfg tool, you will see knights getting groups a little faster. That said, the biggest problem is that the other neccessary classes(healers and slowers) tend to be soloing more(except clerics) and people to tend to group more with just friends. True pick up groups are rare these days, or so it seems.

[Steenky]

-and the biggest reason is that ist become fashionable to say "i prefer knights as tanks" even by people who never had a problem previously with warriors.

That's it in a nutshell. It's quite possible to have a very productive exp group with a moderately equipped warrior, but there is a stigma that started mostly on the message boards and now is considered the rule.

With your playing experience and equipment you should be able to do just as good of a job as a knight, but people have become lazy. They have gotten used to nuking as soon as the mob hits the camp. They slow the mob on incomming, etc etc. These things work just fine when a Paladin can stun the mob for 12 seconds, root it, and throw in flash of light for good measure. This doesn't work so well when a warrior is left at the mercy of the RNG in terms of the taunt button and weapon procs.

Oh, and hiya Zack:)
<----Treage

[Venox]

Hi,

I don't have a high level warrior or anything... but I do have a 49 ranger, and trust me... no matter what class you are ... it sucks LFG. I went with my shaman friend to start up a group ... he was in PoT getting people and I was in PoJ. Keep in mind this was on the Bristlebane server ... which is one of the most populated server. Well anyway it took us and hour and a half to get a group... no one was LFG and no one was looking for more. Yes, this completly blows for a class that is totally dependent on grouping... but hopefully that will change with the next patch (80% full group bonus).

[Zackulle]

Been playing a lil more since I posted and a couple things I noticed. Every single caster(mage wizard enc) I have grouped with since my return has no concept of what was, in my time, at least agro management.
They ALL started dropping bombs on the mob before it even got close enough for me to tuant it. So just speculating but i'd say Steenkyhit the spot.
I dont think the problem is so much warriors as it is everyone else's impatience, lack of ability, or just plain stupidity. Whatever you wanna call it.. They arent willing to put that tiny bit of extra effort in and watch what their doing so they dont get hammered. Instead they want someone that can cast some mega agro spell every time they nuke >< buttheads.

hi treage :o

[landrain]

and that is why the pally snap aggro ability is broken. not over powering, not unbalanced, but broken. why should people try to manage aggro, when they dont have to?

I do believe taunt is almost ok, I would like a failed message and more range, but when it works it is ok. Warriors are not broken, we could use some adjusting but we work fine, it is the way the game is exploiting an unintended side effect that has passed us by...

[Dakkin]

Even good caster players usually prefer knights because the average warrior can't hold aggro through initial slows reliably enough to avoid the odd heartstopping moment.

I think you may have a point about high level exp groups though.

A lot of people seem to feel the grouping skills acquired with KEI and melee twink gear in Dreadlands are now signs of excellence in the high level game.

Continuous pulling, constant nuking, zero aggro concerns and no downtime.

Do they add up to trivialised spoonfed exp, or the legitimate rewards of hard work and intensive raiding?

[Venox]

I hate DL. When I get in a group i go to Sol B, LGuk, Dulak or I just leave the group. I use DL as my nexus and when I get in a group we go somewhere where the exp is better and it teaches people how to play their damn class so when they get up to planar groups they aren't "i r noob". Yes I have been in PoJ and PoI groups and when the warrior comes back, the rogue BS's as his first attack... the caster nukes...slower slows as the mob is coming down the aisle (in PoJ ZO)... hell I can't wait to get my warrior up to planar groups because the first time a damn caster/slower cast a spell and gains aggro ... im not gonna taunt ... im gonna let em die. Fucking retards....

LOL, sorry that was a mini rant/agree with Steenky and Dakkin.

[Superchum]

"I can't wait to get my warrior up to planar groups because the first time a damn caster/slower cast a spell and gains aggro ... im not gonna taunt ... im gonna let em die."

The flaw in this logic is that SLOWERS have no problems getting groups.

Melees have to compete with each other a lot.

So letting your slower die, sours the slower to your presence in the group.

Thus shooting yourself in the foot.

[Zackulle]

What superchum pointed out is the only reason I havent done just that every time someone overnukes or slow's too soon. While it would be fun to watch them get their ass handed to them. In the long run its not worth it, not only does it piss off the slower, but it sour's your whole reputation over time. People dont look at it the way they should "He got what was comin to him" instead they see a warrior that didnt tuant and think "Lets kick him out and get a paladin".