Archery

[Khumak]

Okay so I knew that warriors suck with archery but I had to find out how bad. Last night my guild killed Tallon Zek (the archer in case I got him mixed up with Vallon).

Anyway we decided to bow kite him so all of my damage was done via bow. I use a Featherwood bow (24/24) and was using summoned 3 damage arrows. I had a CoF plus SoV for haste and was sitting at around 1575 ATK buffed. I stayed out of range of his AE so I never got hit with anything and never got my shots interrupted.

I finally got around to parsing the fight just now and I did a whopping 2,524 damage to him at the blistering pace of 16.28 DPS. Was sorta wondering how that compares to other warriors out there. My archery is not maxed yet, though if this is going to become a common strategy for us I plan on maxing it soon. My current archery skill is 176.

[chongo]

Haven't really parsed my damage.

I'm only using a nightmarewood compound bow and usually summoned arrows. however, my archery is maxed @ 240.

I'd love to give you a comparison parse, cept, I bet a lot of it has to do with the mob/ac. etc.

would be a very lopsided parse if I were to do it vs any other mob heh.

[Dinian]

I don't think you can look forward to ranger archery damage if that is what you are expecting to approach.

You should max out your archery anyway... not like it is difficult to do.

[Roma]

Ugh, archery is one of the last 5 skills I haven't maxxed yet, the only useful one. My DPS on TZ would look something like 0 hehe. You probably could get some better arrows though if you were only using 3 dmg.

[Sylviania]

problem with arrows is using 3 damage ones cost nothing as they are summoned, but using the really damaging ones can cost easily more than 1pp. using 100+pp per archer to kill a mob is not that great...

[Dobbo Baggins]

I use 3 damage regularly on raids when i feel like it's a overkill and average about 8 dps. only like 106skill. but then when i go mightystrike on the firebeetles that just killed briq its about 40 if i hit a couple in those 10 seconds.

[Roehm]

Archery is only half of it, if that.

Get a collapsable fletching and get to work.

Archery is 221 and fletching is at 194 atm. I make all my own arrows and use Class 6 Steel Silver arrows. Does make a difference on the DPS, nowhere near RNG DPS but alot better than a Spectral Bow and Summoned Arrows. ;)

[Khumak]

I'm not expecting Ranger damage with a bow. I don't want ranger damage, but if tactics like this are common for PoP then I do think all classes should have the option of doing at least mediocre damage with a bow. I think 25% less than my melee damage or something in that range would be reasonable.

[Polo]

i use the aow bow..

i have bow kited priest of discord and a few blue cons.. takes like 50 stacks of arrows to do

i can crit around 220. maybe more with fellstrike but never happened..:D

[BrikBludgaard]

Warrior archery is to say the least... lacking.

Warriors should be the second best archer in the game.

Lets put it this way.. Rangers are FAR superior tanks than Warriors are archers.

Archery needs to be recognized as a method of dealing real damage. While only rangers should be dealing melee-level damage at range with a bow... it would be nice if warriors weren't quite so bad at it... (this should include all of the melee and hybrids that can use bows/thrown)

There are a a decent number of ranged-fight mobs now... why is it the other warriors, rogues, monks, and paladins are so bad at this?


Warriors can handle 100-150+ DPS with melee weapons at level 65... why are they doing only 12DPS with ranged?

Rangers can attain 150+DPS (non-TS) with bows under the right circumstances...

shouldnt the game's second best be able to deal reasonable damage at range with a bow?

All of archery/thrown needs a looksee... it would be best for all if archery/thrown was make into a viable secondary method of dealing damage.

Brik

[kriegartorv]

im still working on finishing my poe bow but after i stop failing the combines i'll do some parses on the scions...

i'll post some parses with the Aow bow later this weekend on the scion in DL... would be nice to see some parses to see how much improvement upgrading ur bow actually does...

-kriegar

[Spinetwist]

I havent yet parsed my dmg with a bow but I can see a major difference using some high end arrows. Im 240 in archery and a 250 fletcher. With my Obsidianwood bow and Acrylia arrows (dmg 10, Dmg Bonus 13, with 4dmg to either ice, fire, or magic), I can do some nice dmg - usually in the area of 50 - 100 each arrow I fire off. Best arrow crit I did was for 285 using a Nightmarewood bow and an acrylia arrow.

Although Warrior archery isnt perfect it's still a valuable tool available to us, and ANY dps is better then no dps imo.

[gulug]

slightly off topic - but i was wondering, at what skill level do you start to get a reasonable hit rate with archery?

im at about 120 atm with archery, using a nighmarewood compoundbow and class 2 arrows and i can go for a few days of exping without seeing a hit.

Gulug

[Tinguran]

Get magic arrows or you will almost never see a hit.

[gulug]

really? i didnt know that. if so that sucks. guess i better work on my fletching a bit more so i can start making these magic arrows.


Gulug

[tarsk]

And I'm not even going to mention how it wouldn't be unbalancing if Warriors got Endless Quiver..

Oh wait, I just mentioned it ... *snickers*

[Sylviania]

gulug, the reason you need magic arrows is the same reason you need magic weapons : a lot of mobs are immune to non magic at high levels. other than that , magic /non magic arrows have no influence on hit rate.

[gulug]

ok thanks.

now 1 last question - i was doing some digging on seeing if i can make some magic arrows for myself. as my smithing is non-existent, i dont intend to go down the acrylia route, but i understand that silver tipped heads will turn the arrows into magic ones and that some vendors sell these heads.

is this correct?

GUlug

[Roehm]

Which non-magic immune mobs are you talking about?

I use non-magical fletched arrows and they hit everything in PoP up to and including Elemental gods.

[Sarelin]

Even your common and garden Razorfiend in PoV is immune to non-magic damage.

An exp group I had there once suddenly became ranger/rogue/warrior and the ranger decided to bow kite for fun. I chewed thru 200 non-magic arrows and did no damage. Now I always get mage or ranger summoned ones or make my own silver tipped.

[Haass]

Roehm --

. I make all my own arrows and use Class 6 Steel Silver arrows. Does make a difference on the DPS


I use non-magical fletched arrows and they hit everything in PoP up to and including Elemental gods.

Silver tipped arrows are magical. Hooked and below are not. Or, if you want more clarification, if you get 10 arrows every combine, they're magic, and if you only get 5, they're not.

[Roehm]

Well dress me up and call me a halfelf.

I did not know that.

EDIT: I guess I could check my own Magelo to have seen. :p

[Gorgirm]

Archery is the last still needing maxed for me at its only at like 208 or something after 65 lvls and 3 years.

[Chubz Drago]

I personally wasnt aware that you needed Magical Weapons to hit Planes of Power mobs until I got my bow (Primordial Driftwood Composite Bow -- Plane of Water Tradeskill Bow). Personally I havn't been a big fan of bows because it took up your range slot which you could have a very good item in (I have Orb of Evasion which has a +8% to Dodge).

Now that I have my bow, I wouldn't trade it for anything, it is absolutly an excellent item to have. It's very nice to be able to pull a mob without having to get right on top of it.

I never have parsed it the DPS of a bow fight, but I've done Sol Ro with the bow and I expect I did about 30-40ish DKP vs. him.

[Raunstonecutter]

Archery is more a hobby for me. I pull and tag with it, but that's about it. I have a ranger for really pelting on NPCs with the bow.

[Smakz]

i never use archery anymore ... ever since i got my Dusty Soriz Worker Pouch ... and well, i can crit hit for 27 with a thrown fang =P

Ranged weapons arnt a warriors strong point, they never will be, we were designed to get up close and personal with shit, not hide in a bush hugging dogs and shooting arrows.

Archery is somthing i only break out when we do Cursed. Dont wanna get in melee range cause i end up assraping teh clerics from gettin charmed, so i sit back with the rangers an plink...

Not too worried bout archery. Not gonna make too big of a deal about it.

[Superchum]

Uh ... more clarification.

If the mob can't be hit by the arrow you're firing at it, your message TELLS you.

It says it's INVULNERABLE.

Try this with some 1 damage arrows and a few will o' wisps.

But, eh, the good news is, all I ever really use my bow for is pulling (occasionally I'll kite a mob or use it to play mini-Ranger). And even if the mob is INVULNERABLE to your non-magic, cost-effective arrows, you'll still be able to pull it.

/shrug

[Sarelin]

You only get that message if you're inside quite a short range though. Reason I use a bow is the 375 range. No need to leave group to pull most of the time!

[Sylviania]

an other problem to the "invul" msg :
yes, it works that way , like it work that way for the non magic melee weapons ....
problem is i guess most melee uses abreviated messages if they even have misses turned on, and abbreviated does not say "invul" , it gives the standard miss message.

[Haass]

If the mob can't be hit by the arrow you're firing at it, your message TELLS you.

Heh, you still have misses on?

I haven't in about 2 and a half years now, when the dual wield and double attack really started kicking in with the ol' swift like the wind and I was missing chat.

[Brudal the Fat]

I use a Featherwood Compound Bow as well although I never parsed the damage 15-20dps sounds about like what I expected.

I raised fletching to 182 simply because that is the trivial level for class 2 wood Silver tip arrows. 150 range, Magic and I can make 20 stacks of arrows for about 90pp (If I buy components with cha gear, 137cha)

And I can confirm that non magic arrows will not hit Scions. I used GD scion to raise Archery and I wasted lots of time with no hits and no skill ups before realizing I needed magic arrows.

Bow damage is something low on my priority list of things Sony should be doing for warriors, still waiting on a imbue weapon with EB effect something like Orb of the Sky from VT.

Orb of Raging Fury
effect: Call of Rage (imbue weapons with Enraging Blow effect, duration 10 minutes) something like that would be suweet.

[Zerar_Povar]

I only use the summoned arrows on raids, as I will go thru about 10-15 stacks in one TZ fight, or the second floor guy on the way to Agnarr. Cost: a little mana... so what?

If I were to make those 10-15 stacks, that would be a minimum of 20-30 combines, and making even the cheeper of the magic arrows that have a decent range and dmg... (Fletching skill 193)
the cost would be... aprox. 150-200pp. NOT worth it at all.

My damage with a bow is next to nothing, my archery skill is in 190 range, and I use a twisted long bow, which is not all that bad, but still. I will parse TZ next time we do him, and see what my DPS with a bow.

I know with weaps with good buffs, I am well over 100 dps... but I bet with my bow, I would be in the 30-40 dps range at best.

Ugh. I never use my bow unless I have to, but oh well.

Zerar

[Venox]

Lol I am posting this on the ranger glade ... this will be some humor =)

Azen Darkwood
Level 44 Ranger Bristlebane

[Superchum]

"Heh, you still have misses on?

I haven't in about 2 and a half years now, when the dual wield and double attack really started kicking in with the ol' swift like the wind and I was missing chat."

BAH!

I have a melee spam box.

All the crap I NEED to see is in the regular boxes.

Then there's melee spam.

So yeah, I guess I still have misses on.

;-)

[kriegartorv]

If I were to make those 10-15 stacks, that would be a minimum of 20-30 combines, and making even the cheeper of the magic arrows that have a decent range and dmg... (Fletching skill 193)
the cost would be... aprox. 150-200pp. NOT worth it at all.

bog 150-200 pp not worth it? dont be shiesty and make ur arrows u do much better damage with them... on a close fight ur 1 dps increase may save u and ur guild hours... for 150-200 pp... try ninja looting a blue diamond while exping to make up ur losses...

when u reach the point in the game where u need to be using archery on boss mobs... spending 100's of k's on on buying/recharging snare gland/buying rez sticks/buffing reagents... why be cheap with arrows

definately worth 150-200 pp

-kriegar

[Kilaara]

I use the AoW BoW and 7 Dmg Arrows. I often hit for 60 to 90 Dmg and can crit for 220+ with it. Archery is maxed fletching around 195.

I think its the best to do the max damage I can on Bosses.

[sumill]

Warriors can handle 100-150+ DPS with melee weapons at level 65... why are they doing only 12DPS with ranged?

Actually, I was able to parse a sustained +/-50 dps on an elemental boss_01 about 5 different times.

ATK: 1450-1550, depending on SK buff.
Bow: Stonewood Compound 42/37.
Arrows: 3 dmg summoned magician.
Quiver: mage summoned, 50% bow haste.

Do I think 50 dps is great - no, but its slightly better than standing there feeling sorry for yourself.

Also please note that my ATK is somewhat low and other warriors that can hit the 2k+ ATK logically would see higher dps.

[Khumak]

Thanks Sumill. That's a lot more damage than I would have thought we were capable of with a bow using summoned arrows (I absolutely refuse to ever fletch another arrow). I suspect my dps would be lower with my Featherwood bow since it seems that one was designed to take more advantage of Endless Quiver (IE high arrow damage).

40-50 DPS at least seems like enough to count as a contribution, though IMHO I think warriors should do more like 75% of our melee damage with a bow. 10-20 is low enough that I was tempted to just stand there and wait for the kill. I guess I'll go max my skill someday to maximize my DPS.

[Zerar_Povar]

I now use a Bow of Flames from VT which just plain owns! I think it's 34/38 with 5 fire damage, 3 greater Akehva bane, and a +3% archery mod and a 110pt. fire based DD proc, and my archery skill is finally over 200 (don't mock me, I always used my Blazing Bracer of Fenin Ro to pull till I got a bow that actually had stats worth keeping in the ranged slot) and I see that I hit a lot in the 100+ range with my fletched 7dmg arrows, and crits well over 200... but I don't notice that much of a differance with the summoned 3dmg arrows. So I think if I actually parced it, and with a bow haste quiver, I might be able to get into the 50-75 dps range, which is not TOO far off of my DW DPS.....

Zerar Overlord Vah'Shir of Povar

[EmiliaEQ]

I refuse to use any kind of bows (even for tagging) until we get EQ.

[Isk]

your loss =P

[EmiliaEQ]

Rangers destroyed their Tolan Bracers. (And refuse to use one)

M.M (Mage Mafia) still suffers from PRS (Prost Rod Syndrome).
And bitch about making arrow bags.

I end up using a bow only for Fenin.
(Thats when i'm not dead from rampage trying to position him).

As for XP groups... oh well, proximity agro for life

/RUDE Blazing Bracer of Fenin Ro that never dropped

[Sylviania]

a few things :
- mage quiver is 50% WR, not 50% haste : haste is WR/3 (= 17% for quiver of Marr )
- yes mages dislike being changed to arrow bitches, and it can be understood if they have to cast it once every min for EACH melee in the raid. and rangers are happy they can forget tolan bracer, cos really spending half your time to summon arrows so you cast spend other half to shoot is realy boring... ( 15 second cast time for 20 arrows, considering you shoot near 1arrow per second .... )

[Tinuvil]

ever tried to use a bow of the destroyer (17 delay) - great thingy to geat mages to work =)

[Sylviania]

Tinuvil : u will get bored before mage : a mage will have to do 60 times less clicks than u :) and your mouse will scream harder than when u were playing diablo !

[Smohg]

Same for this guy - I spent 100pp in arrows and shot him pretty good. Melee all charged at 30 and I really didnt notice him drop any faster than with the bows - that fight is different to say the least. Semi - hard but - well..........

[Hulanta]

Endless Quiver is a definite need. Or a special warrior only arrow that procs 10% of the time and the proc summons a stack of 20 more arrows of the same kind... Yeah -- that would be truly awesome.

(The proc better darn well put those arrows into my backpacks too!)
Arrow of Endless War
MAGIC ITEM, LORE ITEM, NO DROP
Slot: Ammo
Dmg: 12
Range: 200
Recommended level 61
Effect: Summon Arrowofendlesswar (combat)
Class: WAR
Race: ALL

Yeah -- that is what I would do!

[Sylviania]

Hulanta : great idea. Endless Quiver is under review for rangers( understand : they will nerf it one day.. but any nerf will make half the ranger community scream , and any nerf changing its current efficiency will make the other half scream too) , so u will *never* see it for other classes.
but your idea is great. It would have to be a bow proc ( they can't put proc on arrows :/ ) and i fear item will appear on cursor, but that would be fun :)

[Tinuvil]

I didnt get bored yet =)

...linking the hotkey to a joypad with autofire helps a lot

[Sylviania]

Tinuvil : why can i give one thousand links to The Ranger's Glade for threads explaining how to do that ? :D

[Meety Da'Shield]

I only usually use my bow when i pull in the planes or am tagging a MoB off of puller in PoI Factory and then my avergage shot is like 25 with 3 damage summoned arrows on 55 MoB's (I think thats what level those clowckwork golems are 55 or 57 or something around there.

[Khumak]

The only time I ever use my bow is if a mage is around to summon some arrows. And since I have never seen a mage lfg in the past 3 months or so that means I only use it on raids.