Was epic 1.5 worth it?

[Apeman]

What does everyone think? Had seen the new link for it today and was quite disappointed with it. I thought the SK 1.5 was hands down better. Worth the quest or not?

Apeman
Rodcet Nife

[Turelius]

If you don't think it's worth it, don't get it. Simple as that.

[saniri]

What Turelius said :)

[Nazgrub]

What does everyone think? Had seen the new link for it today and was quite disappointed with it. I thought the SK 1.5 was hands down better. Worth the quest or not?

Apeman
Rodcet Nife

When gauging for yourself whether this quest was or will be "worth it" what does it matter how good the SK epic is? You can't have it. In terms of whether it's worth it or not, I can't think of a quested item I would rather have and if you have a couple groups of peeps willing to go to battle with you, can't see how it wouldn't be worth it.

[Redhenna]

I think whether you consider epic 1.5 worth it or not will largely be decided by whether you are the primary target of it. Epic 1.5 is supposed to be the end all be all weapon for more casual players(at least for this expansion). It is. Nothing a pre-Time warrior can get is going to be better. If you are in Time, or raiding in GoD, well, epic 2.0 is going to be more geared for you, and 1.5 might not be that big a deal.

[wyndaria]

So... since some may have the same question I did... just what is the epic 1.5?

Here it is... from Lucy.

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: 1H Slashing Atk Delay: 26
DMG: 28 Dmg Bonus: 15 AC: 45
STR: +20 DEX: +20 STA: +30 CHA: +25 HP: +235 ENDUR: +190
SV DISEASE: +20 SV COLD: +20 SV MAGIC: +25
Shielding: +3%
Required level of 65.
Effect: Krekk's Presence (Must Equip, Casting Time: 0.8)
Recast Delay: 600 seconds, Recast Type: 6
Focus: Vengeful Scorn
WT: 2.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: WAR
Race: ALL except ERU HIE
Slot 1, Type 4

The question I have is... what does Vengeful scorn do? Krekk's presence is a melee rune for 10% up to 750 damage. 10 min recast, 0.8 cast time. And, the scorn seems to be some sort of focus effect for warriors... /boggle.

Here's what Lucy says:

1: Focus Combat Reuse Timer(2)
2: Limit: Max Level(70)
3: Limit: Min Duration(18.00 sec)
4: Limit: Effect(Hate allowed)
5: Limit: Combat Skills Allowed

Any thoughts?
Wyndaria.
Maestro, Nameless.

[Lanthor]

Reduces the reuse on our Incite line to 28 seconds.

[Vaclav]

It's a reduction of 10 sec x the number listed - 20 sec reduction, AKA reduces reuse to 10 sec.

[Daabu]

1: Focus Combat Reuse Timer(2)
2: Limit: Max Level(70)
3: Limit: Min Duration(18.00 sec)
4: Limit: Effect(Hate allowed)
5: Limit: Combat Skills Allowed

Min Duration 18secs...so it *should* reduce incite to 18sec reuse (still a nice improvement)

[Warz]

It reduces Incite and Bellow line to 28 Seconds. I can confirm this having completed Epic 1.5 today.

[GraniteMG]

Minimum duration 18 seconds means it will only effect those things that have an effect of 18 seconds or more to begin with, like caster foci.

It shaves off a couple seconds, not as much as people seem to be implying :p

[Chaoticknyte]

The epic is a waste of time anyways. This doesn't mean I'm not gonna do it, because I'm almost finish'd. But regardless of how everyone put it, our epic was poorly put together. The graphic is sad, the clicky is almost useless seeing as it last less than a minute and has a reuse time of 10 minutes, and giving us two less seconds to wait on a skill that most of us use once a fight? For agro, it'll probably be one of the best offhand weapons available, but only because of the augments we can put in it. As our epic, we shouldn't have to augment it, it should be the best agro weapon available anyways. I was under the impression the new epics would be the best items for each class, and as a war, my main concern is keeping agro. So no, it's not worth it. But if you want epic 2.0, or you need a decent offhand weapon, you might as well get it.

[Grailknight]

I would have to agree with Red on this. The weapon is very much a casual/non-Time-guild persons best friend. It will deffinetly allow those people without a chance to get the better weapons from Time/upper end GoD to have something that is very good to begin with and , if they can get lucky, be a stepping stone to better.

As for Chaotic's veiw- It maybe a waste of time for you. And it isnt the end all be all agro weapon. BUT- it's also only 1.5, not 2.0. it's the half-way point to something better. We shall have to wait and see what happens as progression is made towards the next step.

I for one will get it because I am in a situation where I wont ever see Time and probably wont get past KT or possibly Ugua in GoD. So I will gladly take this to help me get a little better then I am now...

[Zotha]

There is upgraded versions of both effects, ie the 2.0 will be basically the same just with better ratio and stats. That incite focus needs to be changed for something, honestly its an insult.

[Spockmaster]

pshh req lvl of 65? i might as well keep workin on me epic 1.0 : /

[Xolerus]

Well guys dont know bout you but using a Darkblade (or FB) in main hand and epic 1.5 (anger3 x 2) isnt a bad idea, better than using EoE or JoS offhand IMO. I will really use it offhand together with Darkblade.
It isnt a hard quest, well IMO its an easy quest for a weapon with decent DPS (especially for casual players), good HP, good AC and good CHA.
Dont know why people are complaining, for sure if you are using Darkblade (or Brutsih Blade, or FB) + Black Scimitar (or Demerix) it would not be a huge upgrade, but if you are at this point of the game means you are not casual player and the epic 2.0 will really be worth it.
Thats my 2 cents, I am 75% done with epic 1.5 and for sure will use it a lot =)

Xolerus

[Gobsmash Emgood]

I agree the effects are sub par on it by far the 2 second reduction to incite line is so absurd as to be offensive, I hope that it is an over sight and our epic has a focus on a relevant ability with a ignorant modifier.

Vie a group spell? At the level this item is at group members don’t get hit that much unless it's the odd light AoE ramping mob like Quarm or similar, it's nice that I can prevent 750damage to my group mates but for the most time it will be useless. Make it self-only and make it better!

The Vie type effect while nice in that it will go in song window is lame that it only lasts 1 min, increase it's duration to a realistic level of around 15-30 min. As it is now you need to know when you’re going to get in to some nasty damage and use it just before then to have a worthwhile effect.

The reuse timer on it at its current level needs to go down with the effects begin so limited a 10 min re usage is forever. As an example Clerics get to use theirs effect every 6 min. Bring us on line with that at the least.

750 total protection at 10% damage mitigation that needs to be used BEFORE the bad round you want to use it on gives little flexibility. Compare that to clerics being able to heal 9000 damage in there group and being able to do it after the damage and not have to take a guess when it will happen. The total protection needs to be made much larger for it to be truly epic in the range of 5000 damage prevention at 10% mitigation OR 7500 total with 5% mitigation and also lasting a signifant duration. Ideally it should be 20ish min long effect no warrior wants to be constantly clicking it with 5% mitigation to a total of 7500 minimum (or 5000 @10%) and a reuse of 10 min.

The focus effect is a real piece of crap; if it reduced 2 seconds off of every dis it would still be so.

Do they understand how we use the incite line? Do they not know that they gave us a valueless focus? A free invite every 3-5 min would be nice or perhaps some end preservation, extended distance or something that will give you a significant bonus simply for having it equipped like the other classes get.

Don’t get me wrong the sword has some nice features, namely 45 ac and 235hp in the off hand not to mention the 3 shielding. When you look past that to the effects you don’t gain anything that makes this epic. Perhaps a better name for it instead of "Epic" would be "Mediocrity".

[Phantron]

The only problem with the Epic 1.5 (and presumably 2.0 by extrapolating its stats) is that the best Warrior only weapons are primary only. The current war only class weapons are already so good people swear they can get by with a shield and an epic in offhand isn't likely to be better than a shield (certainly epic 1.5 is worse than comparable shields in the same hp range). Also note that even though epic has 2 augs slots it's not any better aggro than anything else. One Anger 3 (or whatever hate proc you believe in) gets canceled out, so you're looking at one Anger 3 (or maybe Ykesha) versus a weapon's built-in proc, and I'm not really convinced Anger 3 or Ykesha beats say Frostbite or Timesnap. The ratio of war only weapons are pretty much lowest out of all weapons so there's no reason to believe our epic 2.0 will have better ratio than a generic all melee usable weapon, so there's no advantage to aggro via ratio as well.

Then there's also the fact that assuming epic 2.0 = high end OoW, those who can get it are probably close to capping on shielding. Now, it's quite possible epic 2.0 will be like 5% shielding 15 avoidance and improved dodge 3 with 3 aug slots, but going along the weapon themes that have been observed so far, the best educated guess is that epic 2.0 will be just shielding.

Sure, even 1.5 is one of the top 5 offhander in the game, but there's nothing it offers that can't possibly be obtained elsewhere if you're in the raiding crowd. If you're not raiding, then of course it's worth it. I really think 1.5 and 2.0 needs an avoidance mod. This is one factor that directly affects tanking that warriors get killed on. There are simply a dearth of items that have good avoidance and good AC.

[XAclylospradaX]

I would of rathered seeing a Endurance reduction focus rather than a focus that forces us to want to use our incite line more, therefor causing us to drain our endurance pool.

On average I use bazu bellow 1-2 times a fight(grouping), usualy either on inc or after shammy/ench/beast. Rarely will I chain bazu bellow on anything, raid /boss mobs due to the duration of the fights and I'm usualy running defe/stone/avoidence so I will do hit it more often.

Overall, I think it's a good weapon, yes lacking a innate proc but that is stepped up with 2 aug slots. For most this is a huge upgrade for them, RvR wise it is amazing(if you are not screwed at the turn in!).

[OrgroInsanity]

I plan on using it in the offhand.. Mainly because it's crap aggro, but has decent stats.. (Shielding and 55 AC for a Weapon is great)

If the 2.0 Epic isn't an upgrade in Aggro from DB, i won't use it.. Regardless on how good the ratio is.

The incite reduction is appaling.. Makes me want to bitch slap the devs until they apologize.. Almost all other classes got aggro reducers or Accuracy adders or Damage adders... Why do we get 2 seconds shaved off a skill you only use once a fight?

Not only is the focus stupid, but i've seen that the possible click effect for 2.0 might be a 10% 1000 max vie type? (Upgraded from 750 max) 250 more hp? Is that a joke.. Why don't you let some of the Warriors that actually play the game design our weapon.. We know what we want, the devs obviously don't know shit.

[Zoriouz]

Oh come now fellas! Do you not understand what that weapon means for us, not besides the fact that you can use TWO Anger3 augs in it??? Have you even discovered that yet or are you all just blowing off steam because it dont have hate already on it? Appreciate that they did give us a new epic and compare it to 1.0 and see the big picture. I think 1.5-2.0 will be well WORTH it and if you dont do the quest you will be sorry, just as sorry as all the other warriors who blew off the first quest and are having to do it the hard way. Sorry for being so harsh but I mean come on guys, its not that BAD and it can be a very brutal weapon.

PS, IT STILL LOKKS TERRIBLE THOUGH! /shame SoE Art Design Team

[Kaesorn]

One Anger 3 (or whatever hate proc you believe in) gets canceled out... You have proof of this?



Sure, even 1.5 is one of the top 5 offhander in the game, but there's nothing it offers that can't possibly be obtained elsewhere if you're in the raiding crowd. ...duh. You just figured this out? It's not designed for raiders...you get 2.0.

If you're not raiding, then of course it's worth it. Hey, someone finally gets it!

Fact is, if you like the stats and want it...get it. If not, then don't, and use those weapons that are "so much better" that you can get elsewhere. Quit thinking one weapon is going to make you god. Some have an overdeveloped sense of the word "epic".

[Zoriouz]

Amen Kae! Well said.

[Kogur]

You have proof of this?




Yes, he does and you are blind not to see it. What he means by that is adding one anger aug brings it to the level of every other weapon in the game with a built in hate proc. Then adding the second aug brings it to the level of every other anger augd weapon in the game...hence our "epic" 1.5 is no better aggro than any other weapon(discounting the dps).

My question is this... is it possible that our epic has a built in proc modifier that modifies the proc rate of augs you put on it?

[Panazule]

I think it's a nice weapon, albeit plain looking for some unknown reason. Trash mobs have better looking fine-steelish type weapons.

I put 2 anger 3's on it and it holds aggro just fine, when I move it to offhand I'll probably switch over to more dps focused procs on it.

I agree the effect should be something to do with hate/aggro, focus or what not but the ratio and stats and ability to tailor the procs to what other weapons you have, imo, make it a very nice weapon.

[Kaesorn]

I meant about the "gets cancelled out" part. He's acting as if one of the agro augs doesn't matter because it gets "cancelled out", as he put it (sounding like the second aug doesn't get factored in).

If putting two agro augs makes it just as good as any weapon that has two agro procs...then what is actually the big deal here? I don't see a single solitary problem, because it just makes sense for a warrior weapon with two proc aug slots to have 2 agro procs put in.

For all we know the coding for weapons and procs cannot handle more than 2 procs on a weapon at a time...which would mean putting a natural proc wouldn't change anything.

[Aewewenae]

Although i agree that the focus sucks and the clicky needs work, there is no better weapon in time. The Darkblade is the only thing that comes close and it is 10 less hp no shielding and WAY slower. 35 delay on the DBTW compared to 26 delay on the epic 1.5. This will be quite a significant increase in aggro over the DBTW. This will most certainly go in mainhand and the DBTW will be in my offhand. Just my two cents.

[Kogur]

Although i agree that the focus sucks and the clicky needs work, there is no better weapon in time. The Darkblade is the only thing that comes close and it is 10 less hp no shielding and WAY slower. 35 delay on the DBTW compared to 26 delay on the epic 1.5. This will be quite a significant increase in aggro over the DBTW. This will most certainly go in mainhand and the DBTW will be in my offhand. Just my two cents.

First Darkblade is mainhand only. Second, while they are both .92 ratio, the Darkblade's dps will be far greater due to the TEN more damage(correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I gather. I have no parse data from either weapon.) Finally, the Darkblade's proc is a stun(68)+100dd+600hate while the best augs you can buy are 125dd+stun(55) OR 600hate...not the two effects combined. No matter how you slice it, even with the slight HP decrease and lack of shielding, Darkblade is still a superior weapon IMO.

[Draky]

I think that lowering our reuse on incite/bellow line of discs by 2 seconds is worthless. IMO, a 10% agro mod would have been much better. Or if they want to lower the reuse of our incite/bellow line, how about dropping it by 10 seconds to 20 seconds reuse? That would not have been overpowering the weapons at all. In fact, it would have made the focus effect useful.

The clicky should have it's duration increased considerably and have it's reuse dropped in half, IMO.

[methojs]

I dont like the duration on the vie-type spell. I havent used the effect yet on a boss mob but in groups it always fades before I reach 750. I don't mind the 10 minute reuse so much but I definitely think the duration isn't well devised. We only get the use every 10 minutes, I'd like to actually use it.

We get to mitigate a whopping 750 damage over a 1 minute period, once every 10 minutes. You wont even notice that you are using it. Mitigation is mitigation, so I'll take it. But this isn't epic quality. The silver lining is that the quest isn't that difficult, so the reward makes it worthwhile. In fact, for an easily obtained 1.5, it is excellent. But the 2.0 should definitely be much much much improved and much much harder to get - something that is epic quality in today's Everquest. Lookng at the advertised upgrades to the effects, this will not be the case.

[Slassh]

Most of you sound like a bunch of whiney ass-lickers.

Oh no, a quest that is basically 1 groupable all the way through it doesnt yield an Uber weapon!

For the casual gamer it is a fantastic addition to their arsenal. The 2 aug slots allows the player choice, something which i like. Now if only they would make an Anger quest aug thats Lore/Primary.

Now for the uber wars, why whine on a weapon because it doesnt suite your needs? The Incite reduction is minimal, but isnt it better than not having one? The clicky definately seems orientted to the casual gamer.. but the hard cores will be looking for the nice AC and shielding which is so rare to find for weapons.

I doubt many high end warriors will use it for agro, but to say its agro sucks is a little naive. What item are you comparing it to? With which augs? Can I call all warriors with worse gear than mine to be "sucky"?

Talking about agro, I have ceased worrying about Agro generation from offhand for awhile now, and always prefered a nice rati for dps (and subsequent hate). It has 2 slots, and i am not going to try enforce what augs you use, but double Anger3 or procs just seems a total waste of a slot. Personally I will place a 30ac aug in the slot8, freeing up one of my armour slots.

I reiterate, people who scoff at it as an offhand really shouldn't be worried about offhand agro and should therefore capitalise on the slot8.

My overall opinoin of the epic is its pretty cool. It allows me to increase my stats noticeably, with some nice extras like shielding and marginally quicker Incite range.

All you whiney tards are the cause for the terrible mudflation that has occured in the past 3 years. Dont like it, dont do it. Either way, its not like its a difficult quest.

[EmiliaEQ]

I'm the biggest whiner/complainer about Epic1.5

And i can tell you one thing : IT IS ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT.

Why ? because the stats are really nice.
The Focus/Clicky are still totally useless (even as inventory usable).
But that doesnt change the fact it has great stats.

[Battleblade]

Answering the question -

For casual players/family guildmembers/Pre-EP it's unbelieveable.

For QVic+ it's worth doing if they don't have one of about five known weapons that are as good or better, but primarily because it's a needed step to get Epic 2.0. Yes, higher level players are a bit shortchanged on Epic 1.5, but 2 years from now when they have 2.0 they'll maybe be glad they did it.

BB

[Gobsmash Emgood]

Get off your high horse Slassh this is a post about what people think about it.

But to answer your question yes I would not rather have the 2 second incite decrease. I find it devoid of realistic value and a product of poor game design.


While the stats are good for lower geared tanks in main and higher tanks in off hand the effect and click suck hard for all warriors of all levels in all play styles. though the click effect could be worth while if it were tweaked. Dont like what I think of epic 1.5? You dont have to read it.

[Slassh]

Actually have no idea what you think, I just read the text, never worry about the poster. High horse? pot, kettle, nevermind. I thought I was earthing the oversized expectations of mudflation.

There ARE NOT that many better offhands for warriors out there. AC, shielding, and a foci that has debateable worth.

I personally have expierenced the "chaos cry in 2+ seconds" MANY times, especially on raid plows where we are getting many mobs that are dieing much faster than the reuse timer.

Please enlighten us with what you would expect to be a realistic foci/click for a quest so easily completed, and maybe tell us what stats Sony has clearly underated.

Its not the be all of weaps, its a choice, and I think it is definately a very valid option. I will be replacing my Aranini's Rage with it.

Is the click totally worthless? Besides the fact that it basically increases your HPs by up to 10% on the first rounds of combat, allowing for the healers delay slightly longer for you to obtain stronger agro at the time that matters most? You tell me.

Who remembers when Furor posted saying how gimp and pathetic shielding was and how it wasn't worth having?

[Bulbog]

I personally have expierenced the "chaos cry in 2+ seconds" MANY times, especially on raid plows where we are getting many mobs that are dieing much faster than the reuse timer.

Please enlighten us with what you would expect to be a realistic foci/click for a quest so easily completed, and maybe tell us what stats Sony has clearly underated.

Even when pulling mass mobs on heavy trash clears I try to refrain from using bazu bellow more than once a minute unless I absolutely need to or I'll run into endurance problems especially considering at the end of all that trash there's usually a named. Then again I've lost aggro on named within 30secs of engage where I've wanted to use bazu bellow again but it hasn't refreshed but 99% of the time the extra 2 seconds is insignificant.

Well if they want the focus to be aggro based a realistic focus would be +50 hate on the incite line or something like 4% increased aggro(4% decreased aggro for most the casters 1.5's) that is on a different slot than echo of anger/vot.

Stats are great though considering the how ridiculously easy the quest is, however no matter how hard or easy other 1.5 epics are they still should be balanced with the other actual 1.5's. Click is pretty good too, could be tweaked some though. Epic will give me something to wield with BF till I get something else to swap into mainhand and drop the BF so I'm happy. Hope to have it soon.

[Panazule]

Saying that you'd rather NOT have the timer decreased than having it decreased is simply.... idiotic.

Granted, I find it a stupid effect and one that has very little impact on our gameplay at all but it also doesn't harm us in any way.

Nothing to get excited over but I also don't see the sense, aside from being dramatic and extremist, to say you would rather it not be there. If it isn't hindering you, who cares if it's there?

That's the argument I have used with some of these people on my server whining about the epic effect, I just say - "If the effect wasn't there at all then you wouldn't be complaining about it? Well it doesn't hurt anything so imagine it wasn't there and be quiet and use the nice weapon."

I too have feedbacked and emails to have a more useful focus put on the weapon, although I doubt it will ever be changed, I think it should be but until then this one isn't hurting me and I don't want it removed.

[Slassh]

I like the idea of +50 hate per incite, or maybe +20% on Incite range to allow scaling? A small amopunt of endurance preservation would be cool.

There are a plethora of alterantive foci that wouldn't disrupt "game balance". Either way, I prefer it being there than not.

[didiaquarr]

I would have to agree with Red on this. The weapon is very much a casual/non-Time-guild persons best friend. It will deffinetly allow those people without a chance to get the better weapons from Time/upper end GoD to have something that is very good to begin with and , if they can get lucky, be a stepping stone to better.
Can you actually do this w/o at least Elemental gear on you to tank?

I haven't bothered looking into it yet much, but word round the campfire is that there are a couple of raid level mobs involved that pretty much dirtnap your ass unless you're elementally (at least) geared up.

If so, how does that help the casual player? Lots of casual's beating RZtW on your server?

[GraniteMG]

Epic 1.5 can be done by pre-VT guilds, certainly nothing RZTW difficulty along the way.

[Slassh]

[Slassh]

There are alternatives to EP armour in GoD and now with so much nice attuneable armour... Today's casual gamer should be able to obtain EP standards, if not better. I am not saying ti would be easy, but very plausiable.

I am just assuming that the casual guilds would be treating epics much like they were in Kurnak, mostly a guild event.

Several epic parts seem to be instantly redoable, which would only encourage small guilds to farm.

The most annoying part is Veksar. I am not uber, but managed to 3-box him to 8% before my cleric twink ran out of steam. Then the next try I had a ranger friend come help, pulling him to the zoneline. We plowed her fast, only to discover he gates (/bonk). the 3rd time (back at zoneline due to CR and corpse camping) the ranger mostly healed whilst the ENC twink layed down as much sieving power as possible.

A far less geared group would have no trouble if they killed near spawn point. Pretty sure a Shaman/War would have little trouble 2boxing.

[Gobsmash Emgood]

Is the click totally worthless? Besides the fact that it basically increases your HPs by up to 10% on the first rounds of combat, allowing for the healers delay slightly longer for you to obtain stronger agro at the time that matters most? You tell me.

Healers never delay healing me on the first round of combat, 600 instant agro plus the first few swings puts me well ahead of clerics getting agro. It is true that 750 in mitigation could save me from death in the first combat round but I dont die to the first combat round I die later when defensive drops or a CH is late, nither the click effect can help with any frenquency even if I had the room.

One of my bigest problems with the click effect is that I am not a bard but the effect is a bard type effect buffing my whole group. I am not excited about buffing my group or other groups with a 750 pt vie and most times I dont have the 2 slots that it requires to be open.

While some may think that the new increased buff slots will make space a non issue I will remind that there is a number of other important buffs that will be must haves makeing the problem on space worse than it is now. we provide 750 melee and a 750 spell vis to those in our group or 1500 X 6 for 9k in mitigation, for the most part all but the 750 melee mitigation on us will be useless. Try useing it when defensive drops, unless it is a casting mob it takes some time to get off, on average I find it takes 3-4 clicks before one goes off. It is so hard to get off you can not save it for when you get low because you can not count on it going off.

Please enlighten us with what you would expect to be a realistic foci/click for a quest so easily completed, and maybe tell us what stats Sony has clearly underated.

Focus Effect: any one of - small range extention or end preseveration or small hate bonus (clerics get -3% agro from theres perhaps +3% that stacks with EoA) or incite line duration extention or any number of effects that will have some effect on a constant basis but not be over balanceing.

Click Effect: 5000pt vie line buff that blocks both spell and melee damage at 5-10% rate. Reuse of 15 min and buff duration of 20, self only, instant cast.

It seems to me that some think that since we dont have to suffer through it like we did the last one that the effects dont need to be well epic. But look at the first rogue and monk epics they were as easy as ours is atm and provided long lasting items that were at the top of the game at the time and the same holds true for the other classes epics. The click effect on other classes epics are good enough that players would want them just for the click, I think that the warrior epic click falls far short of that level of desireability or usefullness.

I personally have expierenced the "chaos cry in 2+ seconds" MANY times, especially on raid plows where we are getting many mobs that are dieing much faster than the reuse timer.

I can see it being used as well but only about once every 2 weeks or more, does an effect that used every 2 weeks seem very "epic".

You gain advantage through usage, an advantage that is not used is not an advantage.

[DennyDarksavior]

I personally think its great for casual players and mid level raiding guilds. But, the thing is I still feel as if the epic was "poorly designed" just like everyone else does. I hope SOE listens to the warrior community and would decide to alter the epic to meet the needs of the average to mid/high level warrior.

What i thought the epic should have been:

Champion's Sword of Eternal Power
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: 1H Slashing Atk Delay: 28
DMG: 30 Dmg Bonus: 15 AC: 45
Fire Dmg: +1
STR: +20 DEX: +20 AGI : +15 STA: +30 CHA: +25 HP: +235 ENDUR: +190
SV DISEASE: +20 SV COLD: +20 SV MAGIC: +25
Shielding: +3%
Endurance Regeneration: +1
Required level of 65.
Effect: Krekk's Dominance (Must Equip, Casting Time: Instant)
Recast Delay: 900 seconds, Recast Type: 6
Focus: Preservation of the Brimblades
WT: 3.0 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR
Race: ALL except ERU HIE
Slot 1, Type 4
Slot 2, Type 8

Krekk's Dominance: Mitigate Damage by 5%, 1000 Total.
Duration: 5 minutes.

Preservation of the Brimblades: Decrease Combat Ability Endurance Costs by 10%
Max Level : 69

this... this is what the epic should of been in my eyes :D

[Slassh]

I believe the vie effect is low is because they didn't want to upste clerics.

If your agro is so good, then I guess you have never needed to open a fight with Furious. Us lesser tanks don't always have enough agro to outagro a freak 10k initial heal.

[Tachyr]

Why would it upset the clerics , they stack.

[Gobsmash Emgood]

If your agro is so good, then I guess you have never needed to open a fight with Furious. Us lesser tanks don't always have enough agro to outagro a freak 10k initial heal.

I open with it, thats why I never have a problem and lesser mobs that dont require it dont.

[Avallach Whitewinds]

Us lesser tanks don't always have enough agro to outagro a freak 10k initial heal.

I assume you're talking about a crit CH/fast heal. Crits don't effect aggro, either crit nukes or crit heals. Aggro on a crit is treated as the maximum non-crit hate.

[Slassh]

Actually no, i was talking about how sometimes the first cheal to land can be large. My 10k metaphor is clearly out of date, but the old cheal is the most accurate number for me since I have no idea what foci etc are out there now. Normal cheals are for around 9500 now?

Now how many times can you open with Furious ...... reuse timer may restrict you somewhat here. Depending on Furious isn't always a good thing, or on any disc for that matter. Need I educate on some examples?

It is clear we have different tanking philosphies

[Gobsmash Emgood]

mitigationg 750 damage will not make a signifiant change in a 10k heal's agro before you have meleed a bit. After that very short bit it is a non issue.

It's not different tanking philosphies it is evaluation of the importance of 750 hp mitigation. You say "WOWZERS" I say "whatever".

[Slassh]

well, actually, you could reverse it and say you generate 10% more agro for the first heal. And since I find fights are most crucial in the first 10 seconds of trying to take agro.. I think this IS significant.

I am not saying wowzers, I am saying that it has some use, just not overly large. The fact that someone stated that it stacks with cleric vie then its actually a lot nicer than i thought. If you took your head out of your ass you just may manage to acknowledge that it can have use in the game.

Is echo of Anger also uselss? Since you seem to have infallable agro without it? And its a pathetic +15%!!

[Gobsmash Emgood]

No where did I say that what I have said is that current warrior agro way outstrips healing agro. I did not have a problem when I was using incite now I am useing one that has 200 more snap hate plus much higher melee agro. I can safely say that the only time a cleric gets healing agro is when I dont have attack on or a large CH lands when I have taged and not in melee range. Those 2 things are VERY rare for me.

Slower agro is another story all together, the better agro I get the sooner slowers slow. Slow agro often bounces in the first few seconds but that is not anything that a 750 rune will save me from.

[Tooby]

Speaking as someone who probably will not see either epic 1, 1.5 or 2 in a long, long time, I still feel it lacks a little of the all important Epicness. Sure, its one bloody fine sword, but Epic?

An example of a good epic is “the singing short sword” bard epic imo. At the time of kunark it was unique. No other bard gear (in kunark, im pretty sure) modified singing, and you did not get to have all instruments mods at once from items until about Luclin and PoP, so the epic survived, still does, through the ages (expansions) despite newer weapons with better ratios and stats.

Cleric epic – same thing, unique item allowing it to retain its value.

Red warrior epic – only Anger proc during Kunark(?) – unique, high value-added item.

Theres a this 'Epic' difference between an Epic cleric (or bard) and the other, peon, sort.

Im sure there are a lot of examples of crappy 1.0 epics, but that’s not really the point. The epic shouldn’t just be a nice sword among others - a sword that can never survive mudflation. A unique added ability to the class it the part that allows it to be called an ‘Epic’ in my view.

Decreased timer on taunt would be fun, or increase the chance of successfully taunting, or a real Taunting blow (ie. Equal to the normal taunt skill, as a proc).

If it wasnt already an AA, the knights steed would have been a very qualified effect imo (for knights, not warriors, just rambling on a bit here at the end).

[AragmarBB]

Baps,

If you have so much trouble with agro, have a paladin pull with a stun or 2 and AE taunt (as i understand its pretty much fail safe) off him, that'll solve your agro problem. I see you have a DBoTW, we only gave one, but our warriors with sews/vdd still that have no trouble whatsoever holding agro, so it isn't all in gear that agro problems lie sometimes.

[Slassh]

I sometimes fight for agro, mainly when tanking two mobs and a named etc w/o CC.

But it isnt an issue. I innocently stated that the rune does indeed have a legitimate effect and how it can have valid uses, for all levels of play.

I just think peoples expectations for the epic reward is extremely unbalanced for the effort it requires. If it was any better the hardcore raiders would start whinning how it replaces their wepons etc, or then when they got better, the epic questers would start complaining.

JUST SAY NO TO MUDFLATION!

[Ktok]

Here’s a novel idea… how about instead of complaining about the focus effect and clicky (because SOE will almost surely never change it), we try to come up with the best way to use them?

I’m an Elemental flagged warrior with about half Elemental and VT gear. I have a Blade of War, Bloodfrenzy, Hategiver, and all are auged for extra hate. I don’t have an aggro problem… haven’t in a very long time. However, lets consider a situation where those 2 seconds off of Incite might save a life.

Crawling through Tipt (where kills are damned fast with a good charming chanter), a wanderer comes around a corner and charges your chanter’s back. He’s unaware of the impending doom. You used Incite on the last fight and its still down… you pop off an arrow and find the mob’s already within minimum range. Chanter is one rounded (two if he’s lucky) and the add and the former pet run wild on the group. If you got Incite back 2 seconds sooner, this might have been prevented.

Granted, this is a highly specific example and there are other ways to deal with it successfully. It may, in fact, never happen to any of us in the way I described. However, you can’t dispute that if it were to happen, and 2 seconds was the difference between snagging aggro and having an add and a former pet rip your group to ribbons, those 2 seconds are suddenly damned handy.

It reminds me of a conversation I had in /gu recently. I mentioned my LDoN stone went up by another 2 HP and someone asked why I was happy about 2 HP. My reply was that for all anyone knew, the last time I died tanking something, the CH was 2 HP late. Every little bit counts… tanking, often, is a game of microseconds. Accept any advantage graciously I say, no matter how small.

Now for the clicky… Yes, it’s only one minute. Yes, it’s only 750 HP… however, it stacks with the Cleric’s line of mitigation buffs. Rather than assume you throw this up at the beginning of a fight, what if you think outside the box and use it to form a NEW strategy? How about, in a long boss fight where Defensive is bound to drop before its over, designate a cleric to throw Vie on you when you call that defensive is down. At the same time, you can blow your Epic 1.5 clicky. I’ve not heard of anyone trying this so no one can say how well it would work, but for all you know it might give the scant extra time needed to drop that mob without falling back on the secondary tank.

Before you whine and complain about a new feature on a weapon, take a moment to step back and look at how that feature changes the entire landscape… not just how well it does or does not fit into what we consider “normal”. Adapt or die… This is as good a reason as any to explore adaptation.

[Gobsmash Emgood]

Thats an intersting story Ktok but incite is not the only nor the best way to agro something and infact if the mob is on the chanter it will do nothing for you at all since you can not pull a mob off someone with 1 arrow of agro using incite. Get close and AoE taunt or melee.

If your group is getting jumped that much that you think you need an effect (note that it is one of only two focus effects in the game the that we can use) I think you need to plan your pulling and set up more carefully. Do you reaily think we need to plan our epic around something that may be revalent every few weeks or months? And ours does not actualy do anything it only lets us do more, unlike most of the caster classes that get a agro mod.

Lets compare:

Casters: -3 to 4% agro nice effect
Hybrids: +35% to heals or melee nice effect (I think)
pure melee aside from warriors: reuse of a class defining dis reduced by ONE MINUTE !
warriors: 2 seconds of something that is up 15 seconds before we need it.

wow we got it dam good!

BL effect adds a 250 proc to there pet increases there hp by 800 and heals 800 (to cover increased hp) adds 5% to chance to double attack, adds 10% to chance to avoid. Dam I want the BL effect on me thats what I want!.

Cleric effect averages hp of all group members then heals them 1500hp each (total 9000 healed) and removes a bad spell effect not only that but it does that every SIX minutes.

Wizards get a spell that decreases resists by 10%

Chanter 1500pt self rune and the mob that hits breaking the rune gets stuned

Paladins get 20% added to there healing effectiveness and a 200damage proc with a stun for the duration.

DPS classes get burst damage abilitys, the 2 other tanks get abilitys that help them tank and heal, casters get abilitys that help them in there main job a LOT and we get 10% mitigation to max 750.
If wizards got to lad 10 % more DD's to a max of 750 damage or clerics only got to heal the people that are takeing damage for 750 they would be as disgruntled as I am.

Before you whine and complain about a new feature on a weapon, take a moment to step back and look at how that feature changes the entire landscape… not just how well it does or does not fit into what we consider “normal”. Adapt or die… This is as good a reason as any to explore adaptation.

I did exactly that, reread my post and you will see that 1- I dont have room for it (shall I remove rune for it?), 2-when I need it later in the fight after defensive drops it is not realistic to get up without 3-4 clicks (whats the command to get mobs to stop swing so my non channeling ass can cast?), 3- I can not justify a spot over a simple cleric HoT (infered point of post). What other class can say that a simple heal over time from 4 expansions ago is better than there epic effect?

As it stands warrios got shaft (again) on the effects.

[Marduka]

Wielding Darkblade and JoS at the moment - won't do the epic unless the 2nd version is really stunning sexy.

[Ktok]

Few things, Godsmash…

you can not pull a mob off someone with 1 arrow of agro using incite

Untrue. I pull aggro off pullers all the time with one arrow and an incite. Plus, my point to my hypothetical situation was to aggro at range when the closure rate of the mob was such that the tank would not be able to engage physically before the mob reached the caster.

If your group is getting jumped that much that you think you need an effect (note that it is one of only two focus effects in the game the that we can use) I think you need to plan your pulling and set up more carefully

No, we are not jumped that often. In fact this situation has never actually happened to me. As I said in my post I’m simply trying to find uses for what we were given rather than getting all bitter and pissy about it.

1- I dont have room for it (shall I remove rune for it?)

Someone already mentioned that this clicky goes in the song slot… not a buff slot. Not sure if that’s true but if it does this point is mute. Even if it does go into a buff slot, you can buy more buff slots now. <shrug>

2-when I need it later in the fight after defensive drops it is not realistic to get up without 3-4 clicks (whats the command to get mobs to stop swing so my non channeling ass can cast?)

Spell data lists it as uninterruptible… even if that’s not true, the cast time is .8 seconds. Can you honestly NOT avoid damage for .8 seconds? 'Cause I can self-haste myself in mid fight if I have to... and that's a sight longer than .8 seconds.

I’m not saying our epic is the best. I’m not saying it couldn’t be better. I'm not even saying that I'm totally happy with it. All I’m saying is that this is what we have to work with. Our energy is better spent figuring out the best way to use its effect or hunting for weapons we would rather have than it is spent lamenting that "oh poor pitiful us, we got shafted again". Envy the other class's 1.5s all you want, but there are members of every class that are lamenting that "oh poor pitiful us, (insert their class here) got shafted again".

And besides, what do you expect for such an easy quest? In my opinion, the stats alone make it an exceedingly generous reward for the level of effort to get it. I mean when’s the last time anyone’s done a week long quest and got a Time level item for it? Without needing any special flags or keys at all? Not ever that I'm aware of.

[beeafraid]

Havent had time to read the entire thread so this may be a repeat of what someone else has already said....

It is certainly a whole lot better than the original warrior epic.

I'm sure the ability to incite more often is nice. However, I've noticed that with the improved GoD incite, I am running out of endurance a lot more than I did in the past. I understand that it only gets worth with the OoW upgrade.

I almost never ran out before I got the GoD incite. Now, instead of med breaks for casters, I'm needing med breaks for endurance (Bleh). So I try to go sparingly on the incite anyways. I try to only use if I actually lose aggro.

In addition, there is nothing more irritating to me than using incite, and having a caster crit on a mob and take aggro away and I've lost my ability to incite it back. So that's another reason to not want to do it any more often. True, having it regen faster allows me to respond to this situation faster, but if I haven't gotten aggro back by 20 seconds, it's probably not going to matter :D .

Bottom line is, I wouldn't want to use incite more often than I am now anyways.

Now, if it has something that makes incite take less or no endurance. I'm there.

[Brutul]

I think it's the best offhander in the game right now, or damn close to it.

The click is pretty weak. Needs to be at least 5 min duration...I honestly don't see how it woudl be overpowering to make it 10 min duration. 750 dmg rune is not so powerful that it would be overbalancing to be able to keep it up. Situations where anyone but the MT is taking damage are rare, and 750 dmg is pretty insignificant anyway. Will still be worth clicking if the cleric or enchanter starts getting beat on, but it's nowhere near as good as /shield and most warriors don't even bother with that.

The focus is a joke. Insta-click serpent sight would be better. Absolutely useless.

[Deurgeran]

I wish the focus effect decreased refresh of taunt by 50%. That way I could fail taunt more often!

Seriously though .. would this not have been a MUCH better focus effect for us?

And the rune should last ALOT longer ... it'd be alot better, and there woudl be alot less bitching if it lasted 5+ min.

[Gobsmash Emgood]

you can not pull a mob off someone with 1 arrow of agro using incite


Untrue. I pull aggro off pullers all the time with one arrow and an incite. Plus, my point to my hypothetical situation was to aggro at range when the closure rate of the mob was such that the tank would not be able to engage physically before the mob reached the caster.

there was a change to SK agro spells that changed they to be zero agro at range and only gain there full agro value when in melee range, we get the same kind of agro.

At range 1000 incites and one arrow has the same agro to pull a mob off of someone as the arrow by itself.

I can verify that no (as I posted before) the effecs do go in the buff box and there is not one but 2. Yes there are extra buff slots but there is also extra buffs makeing it a moot point. If you have no clickeys and always use virtue your golden, most warriors are not.

Also as I posted yes this spell CAN be intrupted and usualy takes 3-4 casts to get off on the mobs I hunt in MPG, RS and MPG trials.

What I want is a compareable quality effect on it. A cleric can heal 18,000 damage or there about in the same time we can mitigate 750, how is that equitable ?

[LorikTremere]

I am disapointed, to be honest I wont even being going after the epic, as a off hand its has its use's but the rest of the weapon is basically useless. I would have much prefered to see a DD/Hate proc then what it has now. I dont understand how this became a warrior epic it doesnt seem to highlight the class abilities and it sure dont compliment a warrior job in raid or group.

[Ktok]

Agreed, an effect that lowered the re-use timer on Taunt and/or increased the Taunt success rate would have been fantastic.

I’m sure we’re all too painfully aware that Taunt can work just about every time for a long while and then fail 7 or 8 times in a row. Something to make this happen less often, or allow us to retry the taunt more often, would have been perfect.

Another effect that would have been nice would be some modification to Furious. Perhaps making it last longer and take less out of us to use.

I also have to agree with a statement made earlier that SOE probably doesn’t have a Warrior player on their dev team. Or their art team for that matter. That aside though, if we want to get our 1.5 changed, and it seems pretty much everyone can agree its effects could have been better, what do we do? Start a petition to send to SOE demanding changes? I’d sign one if I thought it would do any good. Anyone ever heard of such a thing working with SOE before?

[LorikTremere]