Discpines Explained (in the works)

[Baadan]

Warriors get 11 disciplines, which are special, situational abilities that grant the Warrior a temporary boost in various areas.
They are activated by the /disc disc_name command. Each discipline has a reuse time on it that decreases as you level. To check the remaining reuse time (you can only use 1 disc per reuse time.. so if you use a disc that resets in 15 min, after 15 min you can use any disc, but if you use one that resets in 1 hour, you cannot use any until that hour expires)

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LEVEL 30: /DISC RESISTANT
Duration: 5 minutes.
Re-Use Delay: 60 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 30 minutes.
Discipline Description:
This discipline adds +3 to all resistances increasing to +10 at 50th level.

This discipline lasts for 1 minute, and has a base reuse time of 1 hour.

The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as you level.

This discpline sees it's best days on Naggy/Vox Raids when you are not the MT because it gives you a little extra help resisting those nasty AEs and fear spells. As an MT on a Naggy Raid, you will want to use Evasive .

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LEVEL 40: /DISC FEARLESS
Duration: 11 seconds.
Re-Use Delay: 60 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 40 minutes.
Discipline Description:
Immunity to 'Fear' and all spells that cause 'fear'.

This discipline lasts for 11 seconds, and has a base reuse time of 1 hour.

The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as you level.

I've yet to find a use for this, I guess if a fearing mob is really close to dieing you could use this to make sure you dont get feared away but you'd probably be better of with Charge or MightyStrike anyway.

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LEVEL 52: /DISC EVASIVE
Duration: 3 minutes.
Re-Use Delay: 15 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 7 minutes.
Discipline Description:
The warrior is hit by his opponent less often but also will hit his target less often. This discipline lasts for 3 minutes and has a base reuse time of 15 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the warrior gains additional levels.

The first useful disc! With a pretty quick refresh this discipline opens up bold new tanking possibilities. Also useful when trying to survive a train.

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LEVEL 53: /DISC CHARGE
Duration: 14 seconds.
Re-Use Delay: 30 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 23 minutes.
Discipline Description:
When using this discipline the warrior will automatically land all attacks against his opponent. In other words he will not miss. This discipline lasts for 14 seconds and has a base reuse time of 30 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the warrior gains additional levels.

Good for finishing off a mob and for a quick DPS boost. Reuse time is a little long though.

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LEVEL 54: /DISC MIGHTYSTRIKE
Duration: 10 seconds.
Re-Use Delay: 60 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 54 minutes.
Discipline Description:
When using this discipline all landed attacks will automatically be either Critical Hits or Crippling Blows. This discipline lasts for 10 seconds and has a base reuse time of 60 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the warrior gains additional levels.

Best used when you are in Berzerker mode, this disc is basically eye candy, as the very long reuse time diminishes any practical viability of it.

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LEVEL 55: /DISC DEFENSIVE
Duration: 3 minutes.
Re-Use Delay: 15 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 10 minutes.
Discipline Description:
The warrior takes less melee damage but also deals less. This will not reduce damage taken by the warrior from any form of magic, damage shield, or weapon proc. This discipline lasts for 3 minutes and has a base reuse time of 15 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the warrior gains additional levels.

The second great disc, this pretty much completes your ability to tank big mobs and is about all that seperates us from the hybrids from MTing. It is starting to lose some of it's previous reliability due to some new tests showing some benefits of Evavise versus very hard-hitting PoP mobs.

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LEVEL 56: /DISC FURIOUS
Duration: 9 seconds.
Re-Use Delay: 60 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 56 minutes.
Discipline Description:
When using this discipline the warrior will automatically riposte every attack landed on them by the opponent they are facing. This discipline lasts for 9 seconds and has a base reuse time of 60 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the warrior gains additional levels.

The monk-killer! Use this on an unexpecting monk or rogue with a big damage weapon equipped and they will kill themselves (or badly injure) by eating up your riposte damage.

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LEVEL 57: /DISC PRECISION
Duration: 3 minutes.
Re-Use Delay: 30 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 27 minutes.
Discipline Description:
The warrior will have a greater chance to hit his target but will also have a greater chance of being hit. This discipline lasts for 3 minutes and has a base reuse time of 30 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the warrior gains additional levels.

Remember evasive? Well this is the opposite.. useful to do more DPS instead of charge/mightystrike since it lasts so much longer.

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LEVEL 58:/DISC FELLSTRIKE
Duration: 12 seconds.
Re-Use Delay: 30 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 28 minutes.
Discipline Description:
When using this discipline all hits landed by the warrior will be for at least four times the base weapons damage. For example: If you used a Short Sword of the Ykesha with a base damage of 8, then you would receive a bonus of 32 damage on every hit for the duration of the discipline. This discipline lasts for 12 seconds and has a base reuse time of 30 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the warrior gains additional levels.

Yes, this makes your Windblade 200/44. 0.o

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LEVEL 59: /DISC FORTITUDE
Duration: 8 seconds.
Re-Use Delay: 60 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 59 minutes.
Discipline Description:
When using this discipline the warrior cannot be hit in melee combat. This does not alter in anyway the ability for the warrior to have damage inflicted on them by magical means. This discipline lasts for 8 seconds and has a base reuse time of 60 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the warrior gains additional levels.

Kind of Warrior-Divine Aura, notice though that you can still be hit by spell (and proc) damage, so it's not a foolproof escape to the zone.

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LEVEL 60: /DISC AGGRESSIVE
Duration: 3 minutes.
Re-Use Delay: 27 minutes.
Re-Use Delay at Level 60: 27 minutes.
Discipline Description:
The warrior will do more damage with every blow landed but will also take more damage as well. This discipline lasts for 3 minutes and has a base reuse time of 27 minutes.

Remember Defensive? Well this is the opposite.. another option to Precision to do some more DPS.

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Why doesn't mine get a sticky like Dima's did? :(

[Carribou7th]

Thank you for compling this information Baadan :)

I myself just dinged 30, and upon doing so got a message about being able to use /shield. Is there a thread somewhere about the best uses of that ability? Its for saving overnuking casters, right? ;)

[Dobbo Baggins]

overnuking casters and slowers.

but now a difficult question for some of you. since it seems in PoP CA3>CS3 would you want to go evasive or defensive against say Rallos Zek the Warlord.

[Frodlin7th]

Best use of /shield BY FAR is to "help" your local SK or Paladin.. they HATE it, they'll eventually stop taking aggro to "prove" what great tanks they are if you constantly /shield them.

[Phantron]

The best use of /shield is to make friends and make yourself appear more attractive than a Knight. If you're in a group where it's even meaningful to /shield people on a regular basis, there's a pretty good chance that group will actually believe you using /shield actually helps them rather than just slowing everyone down (because you tank worse than a Paladin when you use /shield, so they could've just found a Paladin instead).

Of course, it's not that there aren't legitmate uses for /shield. But generally you never want to be in a situation where you actually need to use /shield in the first place.

[Szerath]

Now my question is....what exacly is /shield supposed to do. I know it's supposed to absorb some damage from the /shieled player..but how much?

I use it currently and do see the difference when I do not. (great for saving the Chanter's butt) I was just wondering what the numbers were.

[Isk]

Shield lowers the damage taken by the person being shielded by 50%. You take 75% of the damage though.

[Zebedi]

When i'm pulling, I'll run right next to the slower and hit /shield on them.

Makes life easier when you've explained to your slower that they'll take twice as much damage if they move away from you and get aggro. (side benefit is that you don't have to chase mobs which are chasing your slower).

[Phantron]

If a mob was going to hit someone for 100, instead he'd hit him for 50 and you take the 75. You use his AC to determine how much you're taking damage. The damage can be reduced by wielding a shield, but not like anyone does this is an xp group.

[Roma]

As far as shield, imho its best when you're not the MT on a mob and using the /shield to cover an aggro-magnet caster, most often the slower. The sucky part is you take damage at the caster's AC level which is most likely considerably lower than yours, so as MT taking that damage plus trying to taunt ubermob01 onto yourself might be more than your healers can keep up with :(

[Szerath]

Ahh..thanks for the answers. I have noticed since I usually am grouped with and Druidess and Shaman that I seem to take harder hits whenI /shield them. (both can steel agro when ever they want) But I have found it a useful tool to keeping them alive long enough for me to regain agro.

[Phantron]

I won't be surprised if the 75% damage you take on a non plate target works out to be greater than the damage you would've taken tanking the same mob. Shield is very inefficient so far as tanking goes since you give up your mitigation for a relatively weak damage prevention, but it is pretty group friendly since your group doesn't know this (usually).

[gulug]

Im curious -

on boss mobs where fights dont last more than say about 1 - 2minutes, or perhaps even less, and your not MA, which disc would you use for max dps output?

Gulug

[Loosscru]

I think the original idea behind shield was just to throw yourself infront of a caster that got too much agro. Basically, it doesn't work. I have tried to use it a number of times, even going so far as to run up and /shield low level players i see tanking as i run through zones. Bassically it doesn't do much.

One nice use i have found for it is by /shield MT during some of the bigger mob fights. Lets face it, as warrior number 4 on a raid if you end up tanking then something went realy wrong. And because you aren't there for the dps do something usefull with yourself. IF a CH rotation misses by a few seconds toss out the /shield, cut the MTs damage taken in half, by him that 2 or 3 seconds that the clerics missed.

I've only done it once, it killed me, saved the MT and posibly the raid.

[tarsk]

It lowers the damage on the target by 50%

Let's just read that again. Lowers it by 50%

For 12 seconds (or 10, or whatever the hell it is) that caster with 800 AC and 3K HP is taking 50% of the damage that he would've been taking.

Why is this a bad thing?

Yes, mob *total* DPS goes up, but as far as I'm concerned, that's irrelevant. If I could mitigate 80% of the damage to that caster, and 120% onto me, I would gladly do so in a heartbeat. Who cares if it's "efficient"? What it does is it lowers their damage by half, and that's worth it's weight in more than gold.

I don't tank for the math. I use the math when I tank, but I don't do it for the math. Put very simply, I get hit so that others don't have to.

Any skills (like /shield) that I have that allow me to do that are good in my book.

[Phantron]

You killed yourself and think you saved the raid. You don't know if the MT would've really died. You don't even know if they could've recovered from his death. If your clerics are good, most likely the only thing you did was you killed yourself and now someone has to rez you and use mana to rebuff you.

Consider that without disc, there's always a nonzero chance to get instant killed in PoP, having a decent number of capable warriors still alive is better than relying on your best tank not dying.

[Baadan]

Originally posted by gulug
Im curious -

on boss mobs where fights dont last more than say about 1 - 2minutes, or perhaps even less, and your not MA, which disc would you use for max dps output?

Gulug Your best bet is either Precision (57) or Aggressive (60). Precision makes you hit more often, Aggressive makes you do more damage. Precision is probably better if you're using 2h, and Agressive for 1h.

[Phantron]

I'd use fellstrike to do damage. Around the same refresh time as aggressive but none of the drawbacks. You don't actually do that much more damage with the two offensive discs especially if you don't get the full three minute duration. Since it's unlikely you'll begin the fight with aggressive or precision (presumably you don't want to be too cocky) it's not easy to get a full duration disc on a quick fight. Also the nice thing about Fellstrike is the extra damage is does is pretty much independent of your attack rating (assuming your attack isn't very high).

[Strikingone]

Serious questions Phantron,

Have you ever played a high level cleric?

Have you ever played one with your war?

Because without shield, my cleric would be dead many times over, and to me that means serious down time.

DA and DB are fast spells but sometimes, you just don't have the time to attempt casting em 3 times or more.

Shield lets me do that. My cleric would take oom or a dead tank anyday over loosing kei, and having to run to corpse from bind.

[Donnel]

Originally posted by tarsk
It lowers the damage on the target by 50%

Let's just read that again. Lowers it by 50%....

Put very simply, I get hit so that others don't have to.


I tend to agree wholeheartedly with this. What's more 'efficient' in the long run? My Druid wife healing me alot (she's gonna do it anyway, its just in the cards) and herself a little? Or Me alot, and herself alot? (Or herself dead on some things which costs us time = more lost xp through not gaining any)

[Solarax]

I won't be surprised if the 75% damage you take on a non plate target works out to be greater than the damage you would've taken tanking the same mob yes this is almost always the case . my main is a wizard 65 all pop spells and fairly good gear and if i shield with war i take max damage quads because not only is it based on wizzy ac but wizzy mitigation tables which suck royal rastafarian ney neys . shielding a cleric isnt as bad though and some chanters seem to have good ac too compaired to wizzy

[tarsk]

I won't be surprised if the 75% damage you take on a non plate target works out to be greater than the damage you would've taken tanking the same mob
I'm sure it is.

I have no doubt this is true. You're not using your mitigation tables, or your AC, you're using theirs. Thing is.... It's irrelevant, you should have the HP to deal with that (unless it happens when you're real low on HP, of course)

What's relevant is that the shielded person lives to continue doing their job (whether that's healing you, or slowing the mob, or nuking it down)

The point of /shield is not to reduce the damage output of the mob.

It's to reduce the damage taken by *one specific person*.

And no one here can argue that it doesn't do that.

[Fvighlander]

Just feel like chipping in about the evasive vs defensive comments in your info.... The warriors who are finding Evasive to be more useful against really hard hitting PoP mobs are seeing those results because their AC is already so high, they mitigate a large percentage of hits very well without defensive to begin with. If your mitigation is good enough as is, Evasive will produce more of an overall reduction in damage.

Takes some testing on your own to find out for sure what's going to work for you. As a general rule for most of us not geared up in Elemental or VT armor, Evasive rocks against luclin targets with their high DB, and Defensive shines against high end Velious (AoW, vulak) and most PoP mobs.

[Struan_Xev]

Another limitation on /shield is that you cannot use it when,

a) Your using a discipline (def, evasive)
b) The person you are trying to shield is using a discipline

So its not much use to /shield the MT, since the MT will often be using a disc to reduce damage anyway.

[EmiliaEQ]

*Case 1*
Mob hates slower01
Mob Will beat the hell out of Slower01
Mob hits slower01 for 4000dmg
Slower01 died
GRATZ !

*Case 2*
Mob hates slower01
Mob will beat the hell out of Slower01
YOU SHIELD
Mob hits slower01 for 2000dmg
Mob hits YOU for 3000dmg
You LIVE
Slower01 LIVES

Nuffsaid. If you dont use it, or dont like it. Then your not a fulltime war.

It wont save someone every time. but 1 save out of 30 uses.
Was more than worth it.

[Groticus]

I have experimented a good deal with Shield. I use it mainly when the slower lands slow and taunt fails. If a second taunt fails odds are the slower will die. This is especially true if the slow gets resisted.

I think it boils down to reputation and efficiency. IF people are dieing then the exp slows down. If people die while grouped with you then you will have a harder time getting groups.. exp slows down. I keep evasive Hotkeyed due to the 4 1/2 minute refresh time. I make hotkeys to /shield the slower and the healer. I really can not count the number of times this has saved a caster and earned me their gratitude.

The big payoff in the end though is the reputation. Few things brighten my EQ day like having 2 Overlords LFG in a zone and I get the tell to come to X camp.

[Varatho]

Does /shield remind anyone else of necros twitching?

[Sargman]

Really about the only time I use /shield is when the MT says in raid that his disc (usually defensive) has dropped, and the healers need to patch a little harder right away to compensate for the increase in taken damage by him.

When I'm tanking I'm more apt these days to use evasive than defensive, but a month ago I would have swore by defensive only. With so many PoP fights being more about high dps in a shorter time span, being missed completely more often seems to be the better option than mitigating the damage from each shot. I'm sure we'd all take being hit 1 time for 1900 (just an example), over being hit 3 times for 1200 by the same mob.

[Roughbeard]

Could we sticky this? then people dont have to make a new topic for every little disc question they have, good info to have handy.

Rough

[Gryzx]

A question about aggressive:
The way it talks about aggressive it makes it seem like the more times I hit with aggressive on the harder my next hit will be, is that true? Does anyone know exactly what's going on with aggressive, and/or have any idea of what the dps increase is? Most of the time I use it, it's on something that I don't have good parses of non-aggressive, so I'm not really sure how much it's helping, or even what it's doing exactly.

[Isk]

No, aggressive doesn't increase your DPS with progressive hits. Think it increases your DPS by 20% while increasing the melee damage you take by 20% as well, could be off with those numbers though so take em with a grain of salt.

[Baadan]

Imagine the opposite of Defensive..

Instead of your hit doing 100 damage, it will do 125. (estimate)
Instead of you GETTINg hit for 100 damage, you will take 125 damage.

This is why Aggressive is a DPS disc and NOT a good thing to do if you're gonna be taking damage.

If you are going to be doing damage and need some DPS, then you want Mighty Strike or Charge, as they have no adverse affects.

[Strikingone]

Statue hits for 1500 with aggressive

[Baadan]

How much without any discs? How much with defensive?

[Doobi Doobidoo]

Bump

[Gunrack]

sticky plz? bump

[EmiliaEQ]

Btw if u have a very big 2H be very very carefull with offensive discs.

I can probably pull agro of any EQ war while under agressive.
250dps in the back = PoP mob pissed at me = Dead Emilia

At any level, a phat 2H under agressive will be pulling serious agro.
This is true for mid/normal/high/uber level of gaming.

There are 3 Options about using offensive disc :
- Zerg fight , you disc at inc fight last like 40 secs
- Raid leader calls discipline, fight has to end ASAP
- MT call discipline, thats caus he thinks he has the agro

I managed to get 25 melees killed like that one day.
3300 hitter in fire. MT calls discs at 60%. i start owning the mob
(Blade of War + Savagery + Avatar + Bard + Full AA)...
Mob turns at 10%, enrage, 90% of the melees dead (me included).

[Strikingone]

Off the top of my head Baadan, I think he hits for just over 1k normally, and about 650 with disc, however, its been quite a while.

[Gryzx]

According to the Uber Mob tanking thing at the top Statue ought to hit for 1194 max un defensive and 721 max on defensive.

Him hitting for 1500 would represent a 32pct increase in the DI value (assuming aggresive only affects di like defensive does)

And that's a funny story Emilia ( although I imagine it might not of been so funny at the time lol ) Only time I've used aggressive is when we're wanting to burn the guy down really quick and it's not critical who the guy hits really, all other times I save my disc for def incase of adds or the mt goes down.

[Lillyann]

/Shield is a great ability. The main problem with it is to time it right, due to its very limited duration.

If you use it too early on a caster that takes aggro, it will likely finish just when the caster manages to re-take aggro or a tank looses agro, and the caster was not healed in the short amount of time.

I myself have to admit I saved my shaman once in the Cappy room in KC, but otherwise the caster will usually get a heal by the time my /shield has ended.

Does that mean I shouldn't use it ? Pretty much 99 pct of warriors that come along in my groups never use it.

When I am MT and die and there's a warrior in my group who is 100 pct health but didnt use /shield when cleric goes low mana, I think that warrior is DUMBASS and I'm not looking forward to group with him again.

[Anatis]

I never knew what the discs did, or how they work, or which would be good and whatnot. I also never knew that you had to wait until the last disc you used was available again before you can use another. (Just shows you how much attention I paid to our tanks /hangs head in shame.)

I've started a baby tank on Stromm and obviously eventually I will run into the disciplines.

This thread is greatly appreciated by this non-tank come tank-wannabe.

Ok, I knew a *little* bit about them, but not a whole lot.
Knowing more is not just good for the tanks-to-be, but also for the support classes.

And I agree.. sticky it! It's great reading!

(But I've bookmarked it anyway)

Anatis the sigless

[Elroy]

more /shield questions

Ive recently been playing with /shield and found that I like the idea.

The low reuse time makes it convenient. (actually a reuse time to be worth while)

typically, I will set up /shield for my Slower(chanter or shammy) and my healer (Cleric or Druid)
I have found that its useful to keep them alive just enough to get agro back to me.
on Raids, ill set up /shield on the MA to add those couple seconds until the CH goes off.

However,

Does the /shield command interupt the shielded persons casting?
or inhibit them in anyway?

A regular slower i play with insists that i do not use it, but refuses to clairify why.
I am unsure if this is an ego thing or that /shield interupts or limits their casting ability.

[Biggwinz]

Man, I tell you...

Shield is my friend! I have a hotkey set up:

/assist
/pause 2
/shield
/tt Stand your ground, I am shielding and feeling you up a bit!

I use this a TON for exp groups, a lot of times it is not ready to cycle before I need it again.

Everyone in our exp groups is pretty well equiped but a 1k hitting mob will chew and enchanter or cleric pretty quick. I find this makes for way faster exp because its not the CH's on me that eats the clerics mana its the quick heals saving someone that really eats the mana.

I have heard a lot of people say how gimpy this disc was but it is truely one of my favorites, it helps me cover for my gimp taunt button!

[rexiant]

bump

no sticky?

[Lillyann]

That macro is very useful Biggwinz, I haev seen it somewhere else on the board, it will work with /pause 1 though.

I thought I'd mention this macro is best for when you are MT, otherwise use plain /shield macro, and target the person specifically.

The reason is, when you are MT, see the mob running off, use the macro and regain aggro before the mob hits the caster, it will say youcan not shield yourself and that's it.

The problem is when you are assist, often the MT will regain aggro by the time you hit the macro and you are a little embarrassed to see that you are shielding the MT ^_^ And.. you can not reuse shield till another 3 mins.

On the other hand if you really wait and watch the casters heal;th bar to see if the mob stay on them.. they usually die before you decide to use the macro..

So.. when MT the macro is great, when assist better do the additional step of targeting and using plain /shield macro. If the tank regained aggro, at least the caster still feel better, and sometimes the MT may regain aggro for just a sec so it's not lost.

I hope that makes sense :D