CA3 or ND3?

[Braeorn]

I've read many posts and have always followed the "HP above all rule" (not to imply ignore AC) but I'm curious about CA vs ND.

In a given fight lets say mob x hits you 50 times at 400dmg per hit for a total of 20khp dmg. If CA3 improves avoidance by 10%, is it safe to assume that roughly 5 hits would be avoided which would equal 2khp?

Given that ND3 adds 10% to base HP, and I'm at 4500 base, isn't that an additional 450hps?

My real question is wouldn't CA3 be considerably more imporantant/mana efficient over ND3?

I figure I must be missing something as I can't find anyone to recommend it over ND...so I'll ask specifically for this answer to clear up my confusion/ignorance.

Thanks all,
Braeorn

[faederya]

Are you asking which one to get first? or which one isnt necessary to ever get?

Get both, doesnt really matter which one first. If you want hitpoints, get ND3 first, if you want to be missed then get CA3. In the long run get BOTH.

[faederya]

My real question is wouldn't CA3 be considerably more imporantant/mana efficient over ND3?

No, CH is determined by max hitpoints. CA3 isnt going to give you more hitpoints.

[Spinetwist]

go ND3 then CA3

[Braeorn]

lol...I appreciate the comments, but my real question still isn't answered. I will definately be getting both, the question is which one first...and why.

I know CA doesnt give hp's, but if you're not getting hit for those attacks it certainly dictates how often you'll need to be healed.

In my example, if you take 2khp less hits per round vs. getting an extra 450hp, the net difference is a 1550hp benefit by going the CA3 route (that is, if my example is correct which I'm guessing may be flawed but woudl like someone to tell me why).

Cheers,
Braeorn

[Donnel]

I think most people were commenting on your mana efficiency aspect of the question, which would then elicit the usual response of "+HP first because of Complete Heal"

Getting hit for less is always a good thing, but out of 20K in damage, how many times are you going to be CH'd with 10% less hits as compared to 450 more hp? I'm guessing (just a guess) that you will be CH'd the same amount of times.

That being the case, do whichever first. Most here I am sure will opt for the +HP if for no other reason then that their Magelo's look better, LOL.

[Spinetwist]

there is no why. both are very important but clearly gaining 200 more base hp overall will benefit you more then avoiding incoming dmg.

get both. but do ND3 first. Dont ask why, just do eit!

[Bridgecrusher]

There are two missing factors: damage spikes and proc damage.

CA doesn't help you with a damage spike, so if you don't avoid anything extra in a round of combat the extra 450hp will have made a difference (damage spike).

When procs go of, you can't avoid those. So again the extra 450hp will have made a difference (AE damage in this also).

If the occasional damage spike doesn't matter to you, and if you don't deal with proc/AE damage mobs, then CA will be better for you first. Otherwise ND3 is better first.

[Doobi Doobidoo]

On that last bubble of health before you get CH'd.... I think I'd rather rely on having more HPs than crossing my fingers that I take one less hit. Go ND3 1st, Hands down.

[Bridgecrusher]

If we're talking a difference of 450 hp overall, I'd rather have a shot of avoiding an extra 300pt hit in that last bubble than having an extra 90 hp in there...

[Gaylon]

I have also been pondering this question for quite some time. Personally for me being unguilded and mostly a EXP tank, I believe CA > CS > ND. Somehow my gut feeling tells me that getting hit less is > than 400 extra HP. Im fighting mobs that hit for more than 400 :(

I really must be missing something because i just don't see how spending 12AA's to get something that 1 mob can take away with 1 hit is worth it?

I can sorta see how the extra HP would give your healer abit more time/buffer to maximize thier heal spells?

Oh well i just live and learn I guess. Currently have CA1 and ND2 and am working on CA2. :)

[Estebar]

If you're getting complete healed in small groups, or as main tank, it doesn't matter much. You get healed about the same because although you take less damage, CH comes "earlier" since you have less hitpoints.

If you're in a raid where you're not planning to tank (AEs), having more hitpoints is preferable (ND).

If you're in a group without complete heal, taking less damage is better (CA).

One thing to mention is that you need CA3 to train Lightning Reflexes. My 12 arch points are CA2 and CF2, but if I had to do it again, I'd go CA3.

[Thalzaar]

I say get ND3 first. It is also factored in with PE and PP and any hp gear you wear.
Eventually, you need to get both but having more hp's always helps and is a good bragging tool with your friends :D CA isn't definate that you will avoid attacks. Sometimes you will miss a bunch, but sometimes you take the full onslaught of attacks.

a good question related to ND is why upgrade from 85hp bracer to 125hp bracer? it's only 40hps ;)

[Kadah]

Honestly,
Its really whatever makes ya happy at the end of the night,
ND3 will grow with ya as ya get more HP items and more stamina.
SO its well worth the time and investment. But i'd get all 3 in Melee abilites then grab pysical enchancement in archtype to boost em to around 15%
But thats just me and my 47 AA points talkin.

But there is one thing to consider, you wont be getting missed a lot in the planes by tier 3 mobs.
Peace out

Kadah
Overlord
Gameless

[Braeorn]

Thanks all for the info...its just something I've been thinking about for a long time. Keep in mind, my example was only being used for say standard BoT or PoTactics yard trash...a mob with 500k HP would obviously make the significance of CA3 more important (provide one were MT)...but I still wanted to know if it was more important than ND.

My question aside, I've already started down the ND path and need one more for ND2...I couldn't help wonder though if I would be better off spending those points into CA.

'Preciate the input,
Peace,
Braeorn

[Khabok]

I got mine backwards from what most do. At the time I was farming AA's I was Lvl 60 and spending most of my time duoing with my 2 boxed Shaman. So since the shamans CH only heals 1950 HP anyways, I figured avoiding damage was more beneficial then having more HP. So I got CS1, CA1, CS2, CA2.

Of course when I do raid I am almost always the MT so then I got AE taunt, and then went back and did ND 1, 2 and 3.

I have to say the added HP from ND is much easier to notice as your max HP keeps climbing higher and higher, but I am sure the benefits from CA and CS are also good, just not as easy to see.

[Mofu-Troll]

CA3 will not reduce the amount of hits you take by 10% . It adds 10% to your avoidance. How and when it fires is open for debate .

Take the hps , everyone knows how and when they work .

On a side not , hps are what warriors are judged on , the more you have the higher your value will be to others.

Mofu

[Bridgecrusher]

Bang for the AA, the first level of CA/CS/ND is the best spent.

Assuming VI actually posted corrected percentages,

CA1/CS1/ND1 -> 2 AA for 2% gain -> 1AA/1%
CA2/CS2/ND2 -> 4 AA for 3% gain -> 1.33AA/1%
CA3/CS3/ND3 -> 6 AA for 5% gain -> 1.2AA/1%
PE -> 5 AA for 2%x3 gain -> .833AA/1%

so if you're after best improvement per AA spent, get CA1/CS1/ND1, spend 6 more points in archetype, then PE, then pick whichever to max out next.

Just remember to max out the category you choose, since getting the 3rd level of any of the archetypes is better spent AA than getting the 2nd level of another archetype.

[CompDorf]

put it this way...would you want to avoid some of the AoW's attacks completely, or have them hit you and take a fraction of a % less off your HP bar. I'd prefer not getting hit at all. You'll get more of a result out of CA than ND, plain and simple. HP is always good, evading attacks are WAY better though since it nullify's the need for more HP