I hate monks~

[Varatho]

http://pub147.ezboard.com/fmonklybusiness43508frm1.showMessage?topicID=39341 .topic

[rolsdar]

lol nice reply there Varaho.

Wtf is up with the monks they will be asking for defensive next :mad:

[Hussar]

/smack monks

First they take away warrior only crits, now they want crips eh.
Sure, how about we give up all of our originallity. Why should we have anything special? How about you give me FD for taking my melee crits? Because we have aggressive and flurry we shouldn't be unhappy about this (as one monk said)? Right.... I consider flurry what we were given since they gave out crits. And aggressive.... monks also have a damage taking avoidance discipline, so they have no right to be unhappy about others getting fd like skill right? Guess how often warriors get to use discs like that? Unless we're like 9th tank down the line, we don't use any disc for fear of not having evasive / def.

Now lets give defensive to pallys and sks, and berserker fury to all melees, then just delete the warrior class, since theres nothing special left.

[Shikarii]

/roar hussar^^

[Hussar]

/clap Shik, not in the best of moods today if ya can't tell =p

[Shikarii]

heh sylla is going to start charging ya for resses soon^^

[Hussar]

Only time I die is when she's too busy nuking or meleeing anyway, so she has to rez me free then =p
Plus I doubt she'd be for it anyway

[rolsdar]

/bonk Shik

Hows test going ?

:D

[Kaesorn]

Heh, sure they can have Flurry, as long as warriors get equal level of avoidance and FD...how's that for a nice trade of lowering the uniqueness of warriors for monks? Not like I'm asking to remove theirs, and they'll still have their epic and Mend as well as their new flurry they crave, so how can they complain? ^_^

[Donnel]

Forget the avoidance, give me Instant refresh mend!

/waits for Superchum, the warrior/monk to chime in.

/grabs a pretzel

[Shikarii]

tripping over corpses rolsdar; basically that's it. too many proddies gave me the chance to take a break for a while and load up Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction :D

[Donnel]

I logged into test just to see what a "balanced set of armour for level 25 would be"

What is with all those corpses Shik? I mean, they are literally everywhere!

[Atilette]

I logged into test just to see what a "balanced set of armour for level 25 would be"

lol, I did the same, and I wished I had the same stuff at level 25 with my main :p

[Shikarii]

i guess at level 25 the bind_point_rush technique made famous by level pre-10's where you don't lose your gear doesn't quite work and it takes a death for them to figure out :D; and it's easier to delete the toon than to actually run back to your corpse to loot it.../boggle

i swear i thought i was on a PK server.

[Donnel]

Well if you die and lose 25... just /testbuff again LOL

Resets it, and you get the euipment back.... What I have to wonder is if you kill yourself multiple times after doing /testbuff, and then do a /testbuff again, can you get multiple rezzes and actually go over level 25 from that?

Was just thinking about that. Don't know any Clerics on Test with epic (all that casting would take awhile).

Wouldn't it be then possible to suicide a few hundred times, and ding 30 or so on the rezzes? If this is possible of course. If you did it a few thousand times real quick... (after suiciding down to say level 11 or so) could you ding 50? Whoa! Mind boggling really, if it works LOL.

[Brutul]

They made it so you can only do /testbuff once per character. They show up and leave corpses everywhere because it's not their server and they don't plan to play there so they act like assholes just because they can.

[Donnel]

As of last night, you could do /testbuff more then once... I started a gnome SK and was wandering around the mines of malfunction and I attacked a skeleton (forgetting that you don't attack the skeles down there) Ended up out in SFM with no equip and no desire to go back. Did /testbuff again, and voila, all the equipment was back and I was level 25 again.

Mebbe it changed after I logged off test, but this was last night.

[Shikarii]

/em kicks donnel's corpse(s) :D

what a mess. so so messy.

[Donnel]

I only left one corpse! And it's way down in the mines! Not that you would ever go down there

/vaguely recalls when Shik first went to test, much speculation abounded til it was revealed he was all Elf now.

BTW Shik, did you see my new toy I got last night? Click on my profile if you can then click on my Dual Weild alternate profile

(In case you can't see it, here's a hint: Its a Barnacle Covered Axe)

[Shikarii]

i can't open magelo profiles at work ( stupid PC ); so i gotta wait until later. sounds like a cool axe though most definately !!

/tis okay tho on the gnome corpse; 'nomer corpses are so small it's like playing gnome_golf; just keep 'em on the fairway and you can get 18 holes out of 'em easily..hook 'em into the out_of_bounds area and you're skrewed.

That would be a cool as hell GM event, GNOME GOLF..set up 18 holes across the Karanas; and the 19th hole at KFC in South Karana.

[Donnel]

Talking about Golf and you are going nowhere near The Hole?

Splitpaw Entrance would be a good put though, around the spires.

[Varatho]

OK!


How did we go from hate for monks to hate to /testbuff?



Damn admins hyjacking my thread ><

[Shikarii]

heh i don't have enough h8 to go more than 5 minutes without becoming distracted by the thought of punting gnomes.

[Shikarii]

a HA I discovered the hijacker ( it wasn't an admin you blind human )

/points at the other blind human Rolsdar.

[Spinetwist]

I had to post a response to that on their board. I cant believe how stupid some arguements are over there.

[rolsdar]

/points at the other blind human Rolsdar.

Muuuuhah my evil plan worked :D

/steals Varaho's pretzels whilst he is distracted

:D

[Dall18or]

I guess this confuses me, was I living under a rock? Why do monks want flurry and crip? The answer is more along the lines of greed then any form of need. A warrior with that has flurry (and his natural crips) is going to do less dmg then a monk of same level with weapons on same scale. The warrior needs to have really damn good weapons to hope to outdmg a average monk.

Its all a matter of wanting what we don't have. Right now I wanta steak. When I get that steak im gonna want another one. I eat a lot... The monks want our flurry and our crips. When they get them they are gonna say, well warrior abilities actually do suck so give us something else.....

Dallor Hurtingwind
65 Warrior

[Vamcoy]

How do you load up test lol :)

[Aveen]

I think monks took too many shots to the head and are braindamaged.

They were spouting off about how the Dev's ignore them -- ha! hardly!

They don't need crip's, they don't need flurry.

[Superchum]

Heh.

Actually, in regards to that topic I really don't have much of an opinion.

The monk in me wants DPS increasing AAs for the class.

But I wanted martial arts related AAs. You know, MONK-LIKE AAs.

I mean, damn, I'm supposed to be a martial arts master, not some magic pajama wearing foof playing dead in a corner.

The warrior in me is very VERY happy with the warrior AA abilities that are available.

No wussy nonsense like Acrobatics, and Purify Body.

Just hardcore stuff like Flurry and Rampage and Tactical Mastery.

Good stuff.

My level 52 warrior is probably going to out AA my monk, as a result.

Heh.

[Varatho]

Originally posted by Superchum
No wussy nonsense like Acrobatics, and Purify Body.


No we just get Bandage Wounds and Warcry.

Something that is good for soloing ( haha ) and a group variation of the single most crappy /disc in the game

[Lamoeb]

Why do monks want flurry and crip? The answer is more along the lines of greed then any form of need.

No, it's not greed. Monks are in the same position warriors are. Underpowered when compared to the mana using classes, they're just throwing around any ideas they can to help level the playing field.

All of the pure melee are frustrated right now. I've seen enough message threads on this board to know that y'all are familiar with the issue. There's no need to beat up on the monks. After all, they're also in there next to you getting torn to pieces at close range.

For what it's worth my suggestions for improvement include a major intrinsic mitigation/avoidance enhancement for ALL the melee classes to offset the "damage at a distance" tactic common to casters. Intrinsic improvement to melee DPS and missile damage would also help. I don't favor fixes that dilute the uniqueness of the warrior class. After all, I play one too.

Bitter 'Us vs. Them' thinking makes both groups weaker. It's more effective to work together to make a solution that benefits both.

[Adzar]

My Solution is simple. Delete the monk class for a month and make them all Warriors with similar equipment. Then ask them how hosed the Monk Class is.

I have had it with the crying from Monks. Go find your inner peace and STFU. You want to make your class more balanced cool then don't look over at us and say we want what they got. Get one original idea in your heads and run with it. Leave our class alone we are not in great shape and no we are not happy about it. You want all of our disciplines cool take em but give us yours too. Go back to your boards and sob about how unfair SOE has been to you.

Thank you drive through

[Spinetwist]

I think I am going to frame my response on the Monk forums.

" After reading the comments in this thread I can now compare the Monk class in EQ to Oliver Twist. Please sir may I have some more?

You all arent kung foo master ninjas. Nah. You are whining hippie cant-hack-it wannabe wussy cake boys. I dont see a fistful of guts in any of yaz and now when I think of a monk I will think of one of those little girls from Little House on the Prairie wearing a frilly pink dress.

The Nancy Boys in this forum give the truly uber monks a bad name. Quit whining all the time and suck it up. You guys are making kung foo ninja masters look like panseys!

Jesus. Wheres my medication. "

[Superchum]

While driving through, I noticed my fries didn't come with any catsup, and that there was way too much wine with the cheese poofs.

"My Solution is simple. Delete the monk class for a month and make them all Warriors with similar equipment. Then ask them how hosed the Monk Class is."

If that's supposed to elicit a knee-jerk reaction from monks, perhaps you posted that on the wrong board.

If that's just you venting, I think you're venting at the wrong things.

Other than that I can't figure out what the heck you're getting at.

"I have had it with the crying from Monks."

Where? HERE? Monks don't cry here. They gripe on their own message board. So, if you don't want to read about monks whining, don't READ THEIR FREAKIN MESSAGE BOARD!

STFU indeed.

"You want to make your class more balanced cool then don't look over at us and say we want what they got."

/sigh

Monks want DPS increases. Why?

They've been pigeon-holed into thinking that that's what they are all about.

And why would a monk think that?

Could it be they've been told repeatedly that they're NOT MEANT TO TANK?

If they're not meant to tank, then, they're meant for DPS.

If DPS is what they're all about, then their AAs should REFLECT THAT and allow them to improve their DPS.

INSTEAD, Monk AAs are for the large part DEFENSE oriented. While warriors get a nice series of DPS increasing AAs. Which in Luclin, closed the gap between the two classes and made them both more like each other.

That obviously didn't sit well with people. And things were changed.

But, point blank, the monk class is a martial arts, hand to hand COMBAT ORIENTED MELEE CLASS.

Most monks just want to be able to do more damage, and wouldn't mind having some AAs to work towards those kinds of improvements.

Technique of Master Wu is a great AA, because it's within the spirit of the class and is on target for what the class is supposedly designed to be.

Physical Enhacement? WTF is that all about?

"Get one original idea in your heads and run with it."

Monks have TONS of original ideas.

"Leave our class alone we are not in great shape and no we are not happy about it. You want all of our disciplines cool take em but give us yours too. Go back to your boards and sob about how unfair SOE has been to you."

Monks don't want warrior DISCS.

They want some AAs, LIKE Flurry.

Cripling blows aren't a discipline. They're an innate warrior ability.

I think giving monks crips is stupid.

I think giving monks an EQUIVALENT to Flurry isn't that bad an idea.

It's 18 more levels you can force people to grind for some extra eye candy. Why that pisses you off is beyond me.

The go back to you boards comment is ludicrous. This thread IS ON THE MONK BOARDS. It was linked to here.

Mind boggling.

[Glatius2]

AAXP should only be used to fix a class when they are out of whack in comparison to other classes with similar amounts of AAXP. If they're still out of whack regardless of the number of AAXP either of the two being compared have, then the fix isn't really something that should come from AAXP should it?

Pure melee, Warriors, Monks, Rogues, have fallen behind in PoP because they really received no more than very marginal improvements based solely on leveling. Other classes received similar improvements based solely on leveling and also received more spells in addition. Leveling improvements + spell additions > leveling improvements alone. The pure melee need/needed something more. What we got was bubkas.

AAXP shouldn't be the fix for this. Items shouldn't be the fix for this. Neither of these really address the imbalance. All they do is allow those who can gain the AAXP or gain the items to level the playing field. Everyone who can't gain nothing. What we need are innate class abilities and/or skill improvements. It's doubtful we'll get them though because I don't really think SOE understands the problem.

[Spinetwist]

Let me be the first to officially call HYPOCRITE on you Wubao. You say Monks never bitch here but yet a few weeks ago you were bitching about the Monk un-nerf in this very same forum.

Im not going into this arguement again. Trying to explain to Monks about the Warrior class and how we are struggling is like arguing with a brick wall.

I suggest you take your own advice and post your insights about the Monk class on another board. Maybe its just me getting all huffy but Im sick to death about hearing the hardships monk face and blah blah blah. No sympothy here.

[Mowgley]

When it stopped being fun, I stopped worrying about it. I stopped playing until the frustration goes away.

Muds have never been about "class balance", only about fun and entertainment, social interactions and a crass sense of humor.

Have fun, or dont. If someone else is not having fun, let them have no fun on their own.

Now, go play the game for the right reasons.

[Superchum]

EDIT: Let Spine have his fun.

He's absolutely right. I'm a hypocrite. All I ever do is bitch and moan about this that or the other thing.

At least till I go log on my warrior. :P

/bow

[Spinetwist]

You are real purdy when you are angry.

[Superchum]

Bah.

I fell for that hook line and sinker.

Seems like Spine's TAUNT button is working JUST FINE.

:P

[Gnomb]

Btw, when i interpreted the original post correctly he was asking for flurry and a 3 minute dps increase AA similar to us.
As we dont have that kind of aa i think he mixed it with agressive, about the most useless disc we have.

[Adzar]

Wubao,

Read the post directly before mine. Pay attention. You don't know what I am talking about? Okay there is this cool thing called a link on the initial post here. Some of us do this really cool thing and click on it then read the site it takes us too. I think you sometimes argue to see yourself in writing. Sit down & be quiet now

[Donnel]

/em watches the mud fly by

Eh? Where's the Trolls at?

Well Besides Spinetwist anyway.

[Superchum]

Adzar, it's simple ... you want to flame the monks for making such a request as that, go post your flame ON THE MB MESSAGE BOARD THREAD.

Not here.

You got a problem with monks, take it to the monks.

Be a warrior about it.

:P

[Lamoeb]

OK, some here are venting, some are playing head games and some are actually looking at the real issue.

AAXP shouldn't be the fix for this. Items shouldn't be the fix for this. Neither of these really address the imbalance. All they do is allow those who can gain the AAXP or gain the items to level the playing field. Everyone who can't gain nothing. What we need are innate class abilities and/or skill improvements. It's doubtful we'll get them though because I don't really think SOE understands the problem.

Exactly. Not just for one, but for ALL of the pure melee classes. Everyone of us would benefit from that solution.

Thanks, Glatius.

[Adzar]

I am a Warrior about it Wubao. Like I said in my last post read the post directly in front of mine and see who I am replying to. I can tell you this. If he did not want me to reply to him in this thread then don't post on this thread. If you don't want anyone to post anything that you don't like or agree with then don't read any posts. I am upset about this issue because Monks fail to understand that they are not the only class in EQ. I am sick of monks and I personally do not care if you like it or not. I took my response to the monk that came here and posted. You want exactly what you want Wubao and if anyone disagrees with you look out. You act like you are the only one that knows anything about the situation. Go cry with your monks because you can't cast DD spells and wear full plate armor and cast complete heal on yourself. I don't need to like that monks in general have no clue about anything other than seeing what Warriors have and saying we want that too and we are not willing to give up anything in return.

I will not be posting to this thread anymore much less reading it.

[Glatius2]

Damn Adzar, have a brew man. You're making me look bad, I thought I was the king of rants. :D

[Varatho]

You call that a rant?


Pfft~


Back in my day, the rants were three times rantier!


THREE TIMES!!1!


Rants nowadays are not even close to what a rant back in the day was worth.

The trolls were actually good at their job too, none of this stuff they are trying to pull today, spouting "lame"and "STFU F@G!!!" a billion times. They used words that would make Webster look in a book, with baby jeabus would be crying all the time!

And pictures! There were pictures! And they good! With witty remarks, and cute animals and strange people! Last picture I saw was during the crappiest jihad ever, and that was just some stupid elephant thing.

Back then people had personalities too, they weren't just another face in the crowd taking pot shots at others whenever they felt like and oozing back into the nameless masses! People had their own stile, their own special way of flaming someone that made it feel worthwhile to read their posts. Hell people even rped their rants, that was the best!




Ah back in the day, when rants were good..

[Superchum]

You're afraid to take it to the monk boards, where it belongs, because you KNOW they'll laugh you right off the thread.

Because you're talking trash, with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Point Blank: I don't give two craps about monk AAs.

I don't think monks should get CRIPS.

I don't think monks should get FLURRY.

I don't think monks should get WARRIOR AAs.

Here's what I posted in THIS thread about it:

"Actually, in regards to that topic I really don't have much of an opinion.

The monk in me wants DPS increasing AAs for the class.

But I wanted martial arts related AAs. You know, MONK-LIKE AAs.

I mean, damn, I'm supposed to be a martial arts master, not some magic pajama wearing foof playing dead in a corner.

The warrior in me is very VERY happy with the warrior AA abilities that are available.

No wussy nonsense like Acrobatics, and Purify Body.

Just hardcore stuff like Flurry and Rampage and Tactical Mastery.

Good stuff.

My level 52 warrior is probably going to out AA my monk, as a result.

Heh."


Where's the crying? Where's the whining?

I thought to myself, hey, I LIKE some warrior AAs.

So what'd I do?

I MADE A WARRIOR. I play a warrior. I AA with my warrior. So eventually, I'll GET FLURRY. And be happy.

You've got some problem with monkly business the message board, and the monk community. Fine.

TAKE IT TO THEM and fight them there.

Instead you come here, cry in your beer, and then attack me, on a subject I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH YOU ON.

I just think you're being stupid and lashing out a PHANTOM MONKS that don't exist.

You want to argue with monks for wanting warrior AAs, go argue with the monks on that thread.

You want to bash a monk that actually AGREES with you and thinks monks should have their OWN AAs and warriors should have THEIR OWN AAs ... well I'm right here, trying to grab a pretzel before Varaho sees me.

:P

[Dobbo Baggins]

that article kind of pissed me off. but i hope monks visit our site and learn what we go through.

[Kadah]

Damn, That monk thread is full of ^^^^, They compare there stick which is 28/42 with a damage affect Rune etched Bamboo Bo Vrs The Blade of War 32/46 Aggro proc and whine first about how they cant out damage us with it. WHAT IN THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING, The Bo Has a 150 DD on it. It has a neg 300 to fire resit Blade of war adds 700 points of AGGRO.
WTF are those dumb twits even trying to compare?
They swing faster then us with these weapons, They can break haste cap already. I mean my god what more do they want to leach away from us?
What next? Warriors can use defensive so we should have it to?
I just cant believe I read they want cripling blow and they want flurry.. >< Like flurry will add that much more dps .. There is a simple reason they dont need it.
Basic aggro control. Most monks have no idea how to do so. I can barely hold aggro with dual wield 13/17 weapon mainhand agaisnt a monk using a tranq staff and epic. He just does too much damage and generates too much aggro.
If he had flurry I would never ever be able to pull a mob off him unless he was constintly FDin.
So why in any name of whatever those brain dead coke snorting idioits want more aggro generation if most of them dont even know how to control what they got now?
Bah
STFU monks.

Kadah
Overlord
Gameless

[Shikarii]

heh I even went and posted on the monky boards too; and posted here that monks are silly.....but let me rephrase that a little.

People suck. Actually, people who know so little about their surroundings that their view through rose-colored glasses only see themselves as the sole reason things should be changed while using randomly inserted scenarios to justify themselves. Hell; along those lines i'd be as bold to say "i want complete heal"; i want "slay undead", i want "mend", i want "endless quiver", i want "rogue DPS", i want i want i want..

bleh. what the hell do i know about the others. i'm a warrior. I just want to work dammit. I want to be able to join a group and actually be "worth having" and prvide a needed role/job to add to the group dynamics and log off and feel that that when i leave that group for the eve the group would want another warrior who could/can do my job and help spread this new found logic to others changing their mindet that "warriors are nothing but 3 minute raid scenario miracles".

i don't think that's much to ask for. doubt it though since (as mentioned here many times ); AA's, items, etc aren't going to solve it. it's like sticking your finger in the hole in the dam while the water continues to flow out around it. an entire revamp of the warrior class would help it LOTS and some of the ideas here on this board and on the old EZ Board would be a great start.

1. revise the damage absorbtion tables. as in monks and rogues have their own Offensive DPS tables; warriors should have their own Defensive tables. Damage absorbtion should be along the lines of easive for the average warrior...not for the 100+ AA warrior.

2. get rid of all the all/all items what make warriors cream their jeans yet MAKE AWESOME ITEMS FOR UTILITY FOR HYBRIDS. Sorry, you f**ked up VI. it's a 13 on 1 arguement there ( warrs vs. EVERYONE ELSE )...we NEED more warr only weapons/items that ACTUALLY BENEFIT US. We got Pal/SK items dropping like candy from LUCLIN on up yet the warr only weapons you can count on ONE HAND.

3. make the discipine timers ALL less than a 10 minute refresh time. Gawd, I don't need to explain that one any further. It's a no brainer. who's brilliant idea was it to have a 55 minute refresh time on a discipline that lasts 12 seconds? NOT LIKE IT'S WORTH USING ANYHOW BUT TO WAKE SOME PEOPLE UP AND SAY OH SHIT WE HAVE A WARRIOR IN OUR GROUP BUT WHY DID HE WASTE A DISC OMG OMG FFS!

But this is a monk h8 thread. Do I hate monks? Naaah, some are really cool. But; as in Warriors and any class in EQ; it's the BRAINLESS IDIOTIC MORONS WHO DECIDE THAT THEIR PROVERBIAL PHALLIC REPRESENTATION OF THEIR MATERIAL WORTH HAS TO BE BIGGER THAN EVERYONE ELSES AND HAVE ALL THE OTHERS HOPPING ON IT LIKE FLIES ON SH*T.

[Donnel]

/sputter

Um, whoa...

/grabs a pr3+z3l

[arlakisd]

No offense Kadah, but monks don't break the haste cap any more than warriors do. (Well unless get a bard but I think that applies to you as well.)

I agree Flurry should not go to monks.

I agree Crips should not go to monks.

You all make a big deal about the different damage table. I'd give them to you. (Anyone that's 65 with a facesmasher care to parse your max hit non Crit/Crip? My guess you hit for 329 I hit for 331)They are nothing. BTW Rogues are on the same damage table that Warriors are.

I personally liked an idea I heard a while back. Every level post 60 all the pure melee get +20 attack (Innate) They could instead allow our skill caps to rise but I suspect that won't happen. So the raw attack replace the skill ups we SHOULD get. This also shouldn't apply to the worn atk cap of 250.



Arlakis Dreamslayer
Transcendant
Zebuxoruk

[czai]

I don't care what the monks write about on their threads. Most of it won't come true anyway.

I do take exception to them trying to classify themselves as pure DPS. Aren't monks supposed to be the premiere pullers? Not just DPS? Don't they already have triple attack?

What it all boils down to is the fact that ALL melee classes need a boost. That includes rogues, monks and us warriors where going from 60-65 nets us a whole hell of a lot LESS than casters and hybrids.

Oh and yes before you ask, I do have a 55 monk twink alt~

[Vamcoy]

Dont feed the trolls lol. Monks and warriors need to work togther for a meele fix not fight over scraps as it is this is the most vewied thread we have. Porbably monks comming over here so they can go back to there own board and whine about how warriors hate them.
As to the pullers they say Shadowknights and bards make better pullers then them now. They feel just as useless as us about most things. They are looking to try to find a way to get better and as much as there asking for our stuff it is just an idea.

As to my idea if you all hate defensive that much and if it is a class breaking discipline then petition to have it removed. Yeah i said removed maybe if we didnt have defensive they would look at us and actually do something.

Oh well I'm really just rambiling here so I'll end with this. Drink some beer and screw the monks let them sit and whine im going to try to get 55 now.

[Ronaan]

Dont feed the trolls lol. Monks and warriors need to work togther for a meele fix not fight over scraps as it is this is the most vewied thread we have. Porbably monks comming over here so they can go back to there own board and whine about how warriors hate them.
As to the pullers they say Shadowknights and bards make better pullers then them now. They feel just as useless as us about most things. They are looking to try to find a way to get better and as much as there asking for our stuff it is just an idea.

Best post of the whole thread, thank you.
Not every monk out there is "out to get you, and your fancy aa's too".

They ruined FD pulling, made it simply unnecessary in many zones... bards, clerics, enchanters can in most cases pull easier, with less risk. and most certainly in PoP xp zones you don't even need an FD puller.

So all that's left to monks, is damage, and survivability (mend/stonestance) if they get beat on.
Concerning damage, well, there's wizard, rogue, bst, mage, necro, druid, and probably a few more, ahead of monks. you don't need a monk in a group or on a raid.

That's the problem we have at the moment, plain and simple.
Sure the monks do the pulling on raids in my guild.
But it's not needed. we do it out of habit.

I'm looking forward to that dungeon expansion, hope there'll be stuff to FD split pull.

And yes, warriors need fixed. That doesn't mean that monks don't need it as well though.

Please don't hate the class as a whole, we're not all whiny greedy little bitches. ;)