A Tiny sign of hope...

[Gaylon]

From 5/14 Patch message:

- Taunt no longer requires training - Similarly, Taunt now works without being trained. Characters still start out with a skill of 0, but the skill can increase with use.

OK, granted this means nothing to most of us but this means that someone had to at least look at the Taunt code. Its probably the first time its been looked at in over 2 year. Hopefully whoever made the above change saw the rest of the code and said "WTF?". :)

[Five]

OK, granted this means nothing to most of us but this means that someone had to at least look at the Taunt code. Its probably the first time its been looked at in over 2 year. Hopefully whoever made the above change saw the rest of the code and said "WTF?".

Taunt was raised in percentage of success during PoP beta testing - due largely in part to the warriors who risked making a stand on it.

[Dintorr]

Taunt was raised in percentage of success during PoP beta testing

OK, but it still sucks monkey balls.

[Five]

OK, but it still sucks monkey balls.

I don't see you risking getting banned to change it, so STFU and appreciate that some people DID risk that to get even that much done.

[wraq]

I'm affraid I might be soon=( Will see. I can't remember the exact words I used but last night when it looked like my Defensive dropped after about a minute into a fight on Venom I blew a gasket. I did a /bug /petition and emailed every address I think I could find on the developers front. Hopefully they will understand the frustration. On a good note I don't think I called them any choice words. They are toons like us that have to report to someone. I just really wish whoever that person is they would go pull his/her head out though. /sigh

[Kalaz]

Has anyone got a copy of the memo of "Topics You Are Not Allowed to Talk About Unless You've Risked Getting Banned Over It".

I must have missed it and don't want to say anything until I know whether or not I'm allowed to.

[Braeorn]

I don't see you risking getting banned to change it, so STFU

Huh? Who risked what to get taunt changed??? First, drop the attitude, its a ridiculous reply to someone who makes the obvious observation that taunt is not what the majority of tanks think it should be.

Can you enlighten the rest of us why/how people risked getting banned by SOE by submitting feedback about weak taunt?

Tanks,
Braeorn

[Five]

Ah yes, I occasionally forget what production players expect and how different life really is. If I recall from being a Guide, I think any personal threats against GM's are grounds for banning. What I was referring to is something indicative of a environment of beta or testing - where those who design aren't thrilled to be told they aren't gods gift and are even less thrilled when you point out mistakes.

Oh, and I'll take any attitude I wish. I was one of the ones directly threatened with removal for repeatedly pointing out how taunt needed boosting. I sure as hell didn't do it to help ungrateful, mouthy tards who think they know it all. I pay the same subscription rates as you do, bud - for 5 accounts.

[Dafrog]

So you wish to feed the very attitude that you hated as a Guide.....not terribly smart.

[Five]

So you wish to feed the very attitude that you hated as a Guide.....not terribly smart.

I don't feed anything, let alone one post trolls.

Don't like honesty? Don't read my posts.

[Haass]

I know my life as I know it would just end if i was booted out of a beta. I don't know how i could go on.

Grow up.

[Apothes Drudoll]

*wistles a little tune*

[Superchum]

So ...

back to actually discussing taunt.

I remember way back when ... before Planes of Power existed ... back when killing Aten-what's-is what something big guilds were proud of ...

back when I was a just weeeeee little halfling warrior ...

my guild leader (level 55+ warrior at the time) was pointing out how in the 50s, taunt really REALLY sucked, because you couldn't taunt anything even con or higher.

Said guild leader was so looking forward to level 60 back then because you COULD once again taunt even cons/yellow cons/red cons at 60.

Then a patch came.

Suddenly there was hope.

I can now taunt yellow cons at level 52.

Not ver successfully, mind you, but it's something that couldn't be done previously due to bad coding.

In other words, they HAVE looked at how taunt works and IMPROVED it at least once in the past couple of years.

I'm hoping they continue to look at it. Because even though it's been vastly improved from what it once was, it still needs some work.

[Five]

I know my life as I know it would just end if i was booted out of a beta. I don't know how i could go on. Grow up.

Banned /= booted from beta.

I'm 36. How old do I need to be for little ophelia-complex boys to be equalized?

:rolleyes:

[Glatius2]

*ducks down behind the bar and listens to the glass breaking*

[Brutul]

You guys are out of your league here, I'd suggest you just let it go. :)

[Haass]

Well then how about you explain exactly what "banned" means to all of us who think you sound like the fuckin CIA is gonna come to your house and beat the shit out of you?

Banned from a game = what? Ruining your chances of running for president? Excommunication from the church? That's what you're making it sound like.

Wait wait..let me guess, these warriors who "took a stand" on it, blockaded themselves in their compound with women and children as hostages and SOE joined forces with ATF agents to put an end to their protests.

Maybe some people need a reality check. Banned /= end of world. It means send a couple e-mails above the head of the GM that banned you and get your account reinstated, from everything I've seen in this game

[Brutul]

Everybody knows what banned means...now just drop it.

[Haass]

You guys are out of your league here, I'd suggest you just let it go

Bullshit Brutal. Bullshit.

look at the beginning of the thread. Taunt sucks monkey balls. Response from Five? STFU.

Shut the fuck up is what you wanna perpetuate as a good response to a thread here? If I had said STFU to someone in their thread, i'd get my ass reamed for it, and the same isn't gonna hold true here?

That's dirty pool. I don't care what server you're on, what you beta tested, or who the fuck you think you are, STFU is NOT the way you treat people here, and you CAN'T argue that.

[Five]

Bullshit Brutal. Bullshit. look at the beginning of the thread. Taunt sucks monkey balls. Response from Five? STFU.

Actually, the beginning of the thread I responded very politely and matter of fact that taunt was indeed raised in PoP beta.

Shut the fuck up is what you wanna perpetuate as a good response to a thread here? If I had said STFU to someone in their thread, i'd get my ass reamed for it, and the same isn't gonna hold true here? That's dirty pool. I don't care what server you're on, what you beta tested, or who the fuck you think you are, STFU is NOT the way you treat people here, and you CAN'T argue that.

Wow. I hit a nerve with the ophelia-complex boys.

Grandstanding and ganging up on someone because they did not appreciate a rude comment ("monkey balls" is an appropriate response? On what planet?) doesn't give you ANY rights. It just makes you an insecure bully.

Out of respect for the Moderator who told us to drop it, I am.

Fini'

[Brutul]

I don't like either side of this discussion. It's gonna end now or get locked.

[Shikarii]

/distributes milk and cookies for all.. AND IT WILL LIKE THE COOKIES OR IT WILL GET THE HOSE AGAIN.

:D

[Braeorn]

I sure as hell didn't do it to help ungrateful, mouthy tards who think they know it all. I pay the same subscription rates as you do, bud - for 5 accounts.


Get off yer high horse...the original comment you eloquently retorted to said nothing of spamming flames at GMs, SOE, or others. Although crudely stated, the gist was simply that its still not to their expectations.

No one said they were ungrateful for what HAD been done, or those who did do something about it so chill out. Why you feel the need to throw the spotlight on yourself for being one who acted on its original inadequateness is beyond me. Hey, hats off...great...but most people still feel it needs work. Unless you work for SOE I don't think you really need to take the comment personally.

You were a guide (read: throw another spotlight on 'me' being great)...grats? You have 5 accounts too? Wow...the number of accounts relates how?

**edit:shikarii** removed troll bait response. keep that shit elsewhere
Braeorn

[Shikarii]

shoots hose at braeorn

settle down...end another damn post with waiting to be flamed and i'll toss you in the deep fryer.

[Dintorr]

appreciate that some people DID risk that to get even that much done.

Please understand, I really DO appreciate the effort that has gone on, much of it behind the scenes, to improve the Warrior class. There is a lot of effort that goes on with /feedback, which I am certain most of the playerbase has done also...

My position was (yes, it was crudely stated) that even though taunt had been improved, it still needed work ... which nearly everyone agrees it does. I certainly did not intend that comment to be a slam on anyone.

As you can tell by my post count, I'm a relative newbie to this forum. However there does seem to be an excess of thin-skinned posters and over-aggressive moderators here.

That comment may get me banned, but I think it's important for everyone here to realize that this is just a game, and it's just not worth getting too upset over.

[EgatBearskinner]

Hmmm, bet my post count is as low as Dintorr's. I have been surfing these boards for over two years, just don't often find anything to post worth taking up the board's bandwidth.

One thing I can say, this board is certainly not full of thin-skinned posters and it is definately not over-moderated. If you want to see an example of that go see EQ Traders, although with the number of trolls they get I can see why they are that way.

Five must be having a bad day or something, she did jump into hostile mode a bit quick. But that is something you won't usually find here, from her or most others. Flames and personal attacks are pretty rare and I hope it stays that way.

[Shikarii]

Well, since ye mentioned about being a new poster lemme just tell ya this..

People here aren't over sensitive or nor our administrative types over-agressive.
This is the Tavern. PEople get loud; crude; rude; and a bit obnoxious. Sure; there's bound to be some mud-slinging and whatnot which is almost inevitable. But I will tell you this ..

Anyone gets personal with their rebuttals and I, along with any other admin here or if a person here feels that they've been personally attacked beyond their EQ toon's status or name.. WILL SHUT YOUR ASS DOWN SO FAST YOUR HEAD WILL SPIN

Sorry; there's no place here for personal attacks. Keep to yer corners when the bell rings; and no kicking people when they're down..etc. I shouldn't have to say that but even some of us cross the lines sometimes. Be warned, be respectful of people's thoughts, and even if none of ya ever agree with each other keep to clean fighting.

We're all Warriors, Aye? Let's remember that we all share common blood. When you can't raise your opponents hand as fast as you could strike them down you're forgetting the whole point of being who you are, and where you are.

[Glatius2]

*reaches up from behind the bar, as the glass fragments shower down around him, and gropes around with one hand for the pretzel bowl.*

[Five]

Get off yer high horse...the original comment you eloquently retorted to said nothing of spamming flames at GMs, SOE, or others. Although crudely stated, the gist was simply that its still not to their expectations.

It's a drogmar and I paid a tidy little penny for it, thanks.

I can't respond to the rest without breaking my word to the Mods.

I do, however, enjoy watching how quickly the younger members of our community rush in to completely disregard a Mod.

Din - The level of adjustment that taunt underwent in PoP was barely noticeable at first. After about a week, on Test, several warriors and I started comparing notes and we realized that we weren't imagining things. I don't ever recall the subject even being addressed anywhere as to the "boost" that Taunt was given but from what I can guess, it's around 30-35% now from 15-20ish. The change seemed very slight to me but mileage varies. It's my belief that there would have to be a miracle for taunt to be raised more.

I suspect the Powers That Be will be happy to direct attention to SWG in hopes of catching EQ fallout, while they toss their 4 year old game a bone every now and then.

I'm far from an expert on being a warrior. For that, I would suggest you talk to Brutul. I just happened to have been close to that particular change when it occurred.

[Dintorr]

Shik, that was a Damn Fine post. Thanks for setting the ground rules straight.

I agree that The Steel Warrior is way less aggresively moderated than the EQ Traders forum. Everyone here is certainly grateful for that...

However, I still stick with my original assesment as to the amount of thin-skinned posters and over-aggressive moderators. Perhaps my opinion is influenced by other boards I monitor that have a higher amount of "flamage" on them, thus members more accustomed to strong opinions and strong words.

Either way, I still like The Steel Warrior and plan to keep coming here for good information and discussion. You guys have done an exceptionally good job of fostering a sense of community amongst your members.

Finally, I honestly didn't see a need to stop this thread. I think Five, et al. would have eventually found a way to resolve their differences, and a certain level of understanding would have been reached. As it is, there is going to be feeling amongst the participants that 1) a certain amount of "business" has not been settled, and 2) certain members of the community are "more equal" than other members.

This is the Tavern. PEople get loud; crude; rude; and a bit obnoxious

Only if their allowed, eh?

[Dintorr]

from what I can guess, it's around 30-35% now from 15-20ish. The change seemed very slight to me but mileage varies. It's my belief that there would have to be a miracle for taunt to be raised more.

Five - This is the sort of "inside info" that makes the members of this forum such a great resource. Thanks.

I hope you're wrong about it taking a miracle to improve it further though. :(

[Aveen]

Wow what drama to walk into. Here's a little more.

Personally I think Five was a little out of line with her second post. The poster above her quoted her and stated he still though taunt needed work. So what if it wasn't in the nicest politest fashion, he didn't personally attack anyone, he didn't say the people who have worked to get chages were jerks, he just said "ok - it still sucks...".

If we can't post our opinions here about warrior stuff without being told to just stfu cause someone has x number of acounts, was this or that , has whome ever for friends, and played on what ever server, I would rather just go to the old board or Paladins of Norrath. I'm not a mod, I'm not trying to be I just don't like seeing someone torn a new butt hole over a valid opinion with out an actuall point other than "I'm this that and the other, so stfu".
/rant off

my on topic bit

No matter what the work or effort has gone into taunt, it is still inadequate not because of the way it works, but because its all we have. I doubt that they will do anything about it just because new warriors don't have to put a training point into it to get it to go up faster.

[Brutul]

Debate is great, it's what this board is all about. Nothing at all wrong with having a disagreement, and even getting emotional about it. It needs to be respectful however. We don't need personal attacks or insults. If you want to throw around insults and flames, I suggest doing it on www.fohguild.org or another of the many fine EQ flame boards around the internet. Nothing in this thread was that horrible, which is why it's not locked. My posts were just a suggestion to take it easy and not cross the line into a plain old flame war, which seemed to be the direction that both sides were headed. If I had it to do again I would have worded my posts differently, so sorry for the somewhat awkward handling of this by me, I'm new at this stuff :p.

[Isk]

If there is unresolved business, people may settle it in PMs. Most flames are started due to misunderstandings like this one, if everyone stays cool we can avoid a little conflict I'm sure no one wants to see.

Like Shik said we're all on the same side, let's treat everyone with respect and give people the benefit of the doubt when possible.

[Varatho]

Originally posted by Glatius2
*reaches up from behind the bar, as the glass fragments shower down around him, and gropes around with one hand for the pretzel bowl.*


That is NOT a pretzel bowl! :eek:



Oh and BTW: what is an ophelia-complex ?

[Glatius2]

ophelia-complex

I think what is meant is that thing where the son secretly wishes to replace his father in the affections of his mother. It's based off that greek play where the son, not knowing that his father is the king, kills the king and marries the queen. Or something like that. Then again, I could be way off base. :P

[Brutul]

Oedipus was the character from Greek mythology that killed his father to marry his mother IIRC. The term for that is an Oedipus Complex.

[Varatho]

Is that the same guy that was told by the oracle that he was suppose to kill his father and marry his mother but he said "screw that", and went on the road living the life of an adventurer until he retired as a Olympic javelin tossing star. Then finally killed his father due to a sporting accident when the father was watching him in disguise?

[Brutul]

You could very well be right, I'm definitely not up on my greek mythology OR psychological theories.

[Hulanta]

What Glatius described is an Electra complex -- same myth as Oedipus.

An Ophelia Complex refers to Hamlet and his relationship with Ophelia which got dicey because he was upset with his mother. His problems with his mother made him unable to deal with women of any kind: Ophelia Complex.

How did I do Five? (B.A. in English Literature!)

[Glatius2]

Gah, you're right. Wasn't Ophelia a character in one of the Shakespearian plays? Hamlet I think?

Edit: Drat she posted moments before me.

[Brutul]

Yes, Hamlet.

[Spinetwist]

gah. What I wanna know is how come flamers are referred to as "Trolls". Why can't they be called Orcs or something. It's an insult to the entire troll race I tells ya.

[Shikarii]

Originally posted by Dintorr
Only if their allowed, eh? [/B]

Only if y'all keep it directed at ugly ogres, stinky halflings; retarded half elves, drunken dorfs, big nosed trolls..and to the likes of braindead paladins, sissy bards, pajama wearin monks, AFK clerics...y'all know what i mean.

we're all vocal members of a class/race of a breed of norrath or luclin for those kitties whos got blown up there.

i just hate the drama of calling the people behind their screen name stupid, retarded, idiots....the personal shit that you see on 99% of the other messageboards.


/throws busted bottle at dintorr's head...that's allowed !!!

[Raaj]

Only if their allowed, eh?

You're allowed to post whatever you want. Personal attacks (meaning you direct that crude and rude language at someone in particular, unwarranted) is something that will get you at least watched closely if not banned completely from this board.

A note to the older posters though...We both know you've posted forever. You're valuable to the warrior community...try to ease up on the newer guys though. Respect is earned by your attitude and knowledge, not given by your post count. Please remember that. Without new blood on the boards, you wouldn't have a place to post.

[Scaleclad]

<walks into bar, ducks thrown glass with Iksar agility and grace, uses tail to block thrown chair, and sits at bar> Let me help you with this <moves pretzal bowl to groping hand> Hey did ANYONE else notice that a pally posted.....honestly now, anyone? Sheesh what next, Rangers <shudders><ducks thrown bottle>

Gaylon, good poster man, not sure <catches gnome in mouth> one sec <bites off head and begins to chew> sorry lunch arrived, not sure what happened, but keep posting as you want.....<removes helmet peices from his teeth>....though not sure how you can love a soft skin, and one with pointy ears...but hey whatever keeps you warm at night. I got a nice rock picked out back in Cabilis that is at least 75 degrees all night long

<continues chewing happily as bar wench bangs on his armor> yeah yeah I will pay my tab <grabs gold piece from his bag and pays for the drink> Alright, headed back out the door, but I am taking the gnome with me. Just remember, if you need a real Warrior, the Legion is ready to serve. <forages a pod of water to throw back at the fight, but decides it would be a waste of perfectly good water>

P.S. IKSAR RULE! (ok couldnt resist a good racial blurb) Though now what are we going to do for the most classic of warrior jokes....."d00d did you train tauntz?.....lol" to which we reply "damn fire beetle, I will get you next time"

[Five]

Hulanta got it.

/nods

Most people confuse the two because of the similar names and nature of the complexes but no, indeed, I meant Ophelia. Ironically, males tend to refer back to the Oep, overlooking the Ophe.

I almost never get those reactions in RL and when I do, extremely obvious why. Funny tho, if I play a character (even a female one) in EQ and do not openly state that I am a female, I don't get those reactions, my opinions are treated equally and there is an almost knee-jerk follow-the-leader type mentality.

[Braeorn]

Pages 3 and 4 of this thread seem much calmer...but I can't see page two since our corporate IT folks have content filters running. Whatever it is that someone posted prevents me from seeing any possible flames stemming from my last comment.

Will read tonight from home.

Peace,
Braeorn
{Wonders if someone layed smack on me}

[Dintorr]

/throws busted bottle at dintorr's head...that's allowed !!!

Your Riposte skill has improved!! (221)

[Haass]

Five, i'll be honest with you for a second.

I don't look at writing on a message board and think male/female. Hell. I don't even look at the pic in your icon and think of you as female. I didn't start a fight with you because of that, I started a fight with you because I didn't like what you posted, which is not related to your gender.

I got better reasons to pick fights with people, if you think I'm wasting time arguing with you just because your female, you're flattering yourself. Your posts came across as holier than thou crap, and THAT is why I picked a fight with you.

Of course, you're free to think whatever you want, but your conspiracy theories about people being out to get you just because of your gender are pretty wild. If you think it's "Extremely obvious," you're "Extremely incorrect."

[Five]

I almost never get those reactions in RL and when I do, extremely obvious why

I would appreciate it if you are going to pull selective phrases out of my posts, that you would at least address them correctly. I said IRL it was extremely obvious why.

As to my "holier than tho" attitude, is it not of the same vein as your "It my right to play righteous judge and jury" attitude?

Every person who decided they were "right" enough to judge what my actual attitude was (thru written text, no less /laughs) holds exactly that same "holier than tho" attitude.

Who are you or anyone to say what my attitude is? Do you know me IRL? Have you ever taken the time to get to know me here? No. You tried to play "judge, jury and executioner" because of your own feelings of being "right".

As to the rest, I am sorry that my 36 years of life have taught me a few things about prejudice and that knowledge may not be something you are aware of but it doesn't make my experiences any less valid.

P.S. My second post which everyone jumped on was to Dintorr - who would have been extremely justified to say "Hey, don't tell me to STFU, that's not your right" and I would have said "You're right and I'm sorry cause that a knee-jerk reaction and I should have been more mature." But it was HIS place to say that. Not everyone else.

[Haass]

Well it's obvious i'm banging my head against the wall here, so you go right ahead and believe whatever you want. You can believe that everyone hates you because you're female, you can feel superior because you're 13 years older than me, and you can feel superior because you're on test instead of a production server...kinda like those Sullon kids that come thru talking about how they are the only ones that play on a "real" server.

Oh, and ...

But it was HIS place to say that. Not everyone else

Where I come from, we call a spade a spade, and by posting on a public board, you lose all right to declare who can reply to your posts.

[Smohg]

/agree Haass

[Braeorn]

Lol...kinda funny. Public forums = public replies.

It was HIS right to reply as much as it was everyone else's. Hell, if mods restricted people from commenting on others remarks, would there be any active threads?

Ridiculous.

Braeorn

- Famous Quote #1: "You can't teach an old dog new tricks"
- Famous Quote #2: "Ignorance is bliss"
- Unknown Quote: "Quotes 1 and 2 have been witnessed in people as early as age 36"

[Hulanta]

Bah! Give Five a friggin break. She stated her opinion, you stated yours. We have heard what you each think. No reason to keep going back and forth on these Five vs. Haass posts.

People can post what they want, but how you say something is as important as what you say. Be more careful people... Just because you are a warrior doesn't mean you need to be bellicose...

[Brutul]

bellicose! Not every day you get to use that word in a sentence. This has been a very educational thread.

[Vamcoy]

Umm I go away for a day or 2 come back and theres 4 pages of mud flinging here. So lets all calm down here let me bust out the good stuff. /KEG /KEG /KEG

Drink up and have fun

[Apothes Drudoll]

And where is the sign that says no paladins allowed?

We get thirsty just like ya warriors that couldn’t piss off your worst enemy to attack ya :p


*looks around for the bartender* *shouts* barkeep buy the bar a round on me *sets a bag of plat on the bar* that shoudl cover it and use what's left over to clean up this sty the warriors turned your bar into.

[Scaleclad]

<runs back in the bar, and sits down> Well hell. If your buyen the pick me up juice. Nah its allowed, but you got to take some ragging from us non chain stuning tanks. Though the round on you....basically covers it. (we simple minded after years of getting hit in the head on a regular basis.) So what brings you to this neck of the woods? I would reckon you Knights got your own hideouts with all kinds of nice info.

[Vamcoy]

He comes here to feel better about himself like they all do. j/k

[Apothes Drudoll]

I like your board better then PoN and the knights tend to be a bit whiney.

Although a few warriors seem to be whiney also :p

*motions to the barkeep for another round for the bar*

[Dinian]

Somehow I missed this thread... but it eerily reminds me of other threads from the older message board.

It seems the younger people aren't used to the "woe is me for I volunteer to play on test server and deal with so much so you production boys are unworthy and need to sit down and shove it" attitude from Five. It's her way of feeling special :)

I just laugh it off. Lately I've been laughing off quite a bit. Especially how patheticly boring the end game of EQ is (the game I unfortunately find myself in). Personally, I either need a long break or a new game.

[Raaj]

Locking this.

Haass and Five - If you want to contine your arguing back and forth, take it to PM's.