VDD for DPS or Tanking or pass for something else?

[Hulanta]

I am using Blade of War to tank in Time (up to Phase 4 so far). Terris has dropped a couple of VDDs and I am liking the look of the weapon and use a Crow Footed Lance when I am not tanking. Should I forget about having a DPS weapon like a VDD? Should I get one and Anger 3 it?

I looked at a bunch of people's profiles on EQ Rankings and didn't see many VDDs on top end warriors...

Opinions?

[Velk]

I looked at a bunch of people's profiles on EQ Rankings and didn't see many VDDs on top end warriors...

If you define 'top end' by sorting by hp then the winners are all going to have two 1handers because they have more hp than a 2hander, regardless of what they normally use.

[Hulanta]

Eh -- you are oversimplifying. Most of them have a 1her set up (the one they list so they can have as many hps as possible) and then a 2her mode. Most list a Blade of War as 2her mode and many have all the stuff they carry in their bags and I didn't see any VDDs in the bags.

[Chatja ogre]

BoW or DW! VDD is argueable better then BoW, but worth it? Not imo.

[Thalzaar]

so far we've had 2 VDD's drop and they went to warriors who haven't gotten a BoW. They put anger 3 on them and say that they do very well tanking with it. I'm not going to put in for a VDD unless they are going to rot. Our paladins seem to be holding out for thier class specific weapon or something, hehe.

Anyhow, i wouldn't put in for it if you have a BoW. maybe pick up the 2h from the golems in p3. We had one drop and no one wanted to put in for it (again, probably holding out for something better) so we gave it to one of our newest warrior recruits which was using a windblade, hehe He was definately stoked. :)

[Splaktar]

Don't get a VDD if you have a BoW, it's a waste.

[Brodda Thep]

VDD is the best tanking weapon in the game.

[Reamer]

I would Keep You BoW, unless You Are Just so high on points that you can atake a VDD, besides Your decked Out gear you Knwo You want your dark blade of the warlord! =^)

Oh Yea And Hi Hul haven't seen you Since You Moved to Maelin =^)

[Injektilo]

VDD is the best tanking weapon in the game.

Very, very debatable.

If you have a blade of war, i personally wouldnt get a VDD. Id save for a Darkblade and an EOE. Most of the warriors in my guild either use this combo or a Blade of War. I used a Blade of War before this combo.

I dunno if you are dkp or award based or what not, but i wouldnt waste your points on a nice 2 hander when you already have one. You get 405 hp off of a Darkblade + EoE vs 230 off a VDD. A Blade of War is going to hold aggro as well as a Darkblade + EOE or an Augmented VDD. The only reason to upgrade a BoW is for more hp realistically. And if you are going to upgrade it for more hp, it makes more sense to get a dual wield combo over another 2 hander.

Now the argument can be made a VDD is better because of the DPS factor and the lower riposte rate, and this is true. But with the Darkblade being so slow, your riposte rate doesnt really climb dramatically by going back to duel wield. Even with a fast weapon like an EOE or quarm hammer offhand.

Personally again id upgrade to a DB + EOE, or just stick with the Blade of War till the next expansion. Aquiring a VDD is a waste though.

[Choppin]

Blades of Wrath on my server have quite a few VDD's, some with rangers some with knights.

Personally I would go for one as a pure DPS tool (my next best DPS combo is pet sword + crap offhand)

Any alternative to the VDD as pure DPS would be an other PoTime dualwield combo, which means you have to make 2 purchases instead of 1, right? Unless there is another great 2h in there that I'm missing.

[Thalzaar]

like i said in my post, the 2h from the p3 golems (timeless coral greatsword thing) is pretty nice 2h. not sure on how common it is, we got 1 outta 3 or 4 p3 killings

[Brodda Thep]

Now the argument can be made a VDD is better because of the DPS factor and the lower riposte rate, and this is true. But with the Darkblade being so slow, your riposte rate doesnt really climb dramatically by going back to duel wield. Even with a fast weapon like an EOE or quarm hammer offhand.

That and the agro you get from double riposting with a VDD is quite a bit more than double riposting with a DBotWL.

I am sure that the agro you get from melee is more from the VDD. What I am not sure of, is wether the additional procs from the DB + EoE would make up for it. I don't think so though.

Either way, if a warrior doesn't have their Time BP I have to chain FD to keep agro from me regardless of their weapon set up. But if they have that BP and VDD or Darkblade, I almost never take agro.

[Raaj]

Are you serious?

How exactly are you quantifying melee agro? The DW setup is higher dps, higher procrate and the procs are higher agro than VDD's proc.

The only thing VDD has over Db/EoE is the tiniest reduction in riposte's.

[Thalzaar]

this is what i'm talking about from phase 3 golems (using eqitem tag so raaj can be happy :D)
timeless coral greatsword

[Phantron]

Consider AC debuff appears to be one of the few procs that really does increase DPS I'd wager in a melee-heavy group Vanazir outdamages DBoW + EoE combo due to the proc, not from your DPS but from everyone else doing more DPS. It is certainly a serviceable alternative to DBoW + EoE.

DBoW + EoE is still the best combo for warriors by far, but you can manage with just a VDD too. It's also only one item instead of two.

[Chatja ogre]

DB and EoE owns VDD in everything, cept ripostes. DR isn't even a worthy factor to talk about when comparing these 2 combos, because the DB and EoE combo is much better proc and dps wise.

[Brodda Thep]

Are you serious?

How exactly are you quantifying melee agro? The DW setup is higher dps, higher procrate and the procs are higher agro than VDD's proc.

You didn't look at my post on how melee agro is generated? Dual wield is not so hot in generating agro compared to similar two handers.

Also if you are fighting a mob that quads every second, you will end up riposting quite often. Each attack from a Vana, be it a hit or miss, will genrate about 100 agro. While each attack from a Darkblade is about 60.

The point is that I doubt darkblade will stomp Vana, and you will take significantly less damage from attacking a 75% fully slowed mob with vana than a darkblade. Of course, if it is 75% fully slowed, the increased dps won't be significant anyways.

[Phantron]

I'd think the AC debuff will make up for the 10 DPS or so that VDD falls behind DBoW + EoE in a group setting which is when our DPS matters.

[Raaj]

I think that's a bit of a stretch, n27ac = 10dps? If you count the dps upgrade that everyone receives, it might be a bit more than that but I don't think our own dps would jump 10 just by reducing 27 ac.

[Hraldrin Down]

I like my VDD with Anger 3 personally but I will probably get a DBoTW + EoE once other warriors with crappier weapons get them.

VDD certainly owns in PvP though, AC debuff annoys the crap outta people.

[Tarkas]

Darkblade proc is pretty heavy duty aggro. I'd estimate somewhere around 1000 hate from what i've seen it do snap aggro wise.

[Phantron]

Well certainly the AC debuff doesn't increase our own DPS by 10. I was thinking about a group situation. Certainly on a raid I'd wager having Nightmares on the mob all the time nets you far more DPS than an extra 10 you'd get by going DBoW + EoE.

[EmiliaEQ]

Well increasing a raids dps by X is not a valid reason to loot a Vazanir.
(At least for a warrior)

The only valid reasons to loot a Vazanir would be
1) THE LOOKS
2) You dont have a BoW

For low agro dps, u take the shit from phase 3.
Not a Vazanir :p


PS :
I have SERIOUS reasons to doubt Vazanir will outagro DBoW+EoE
I mean you ripost what 5% of the mobs attacks ?
Even if it quads once per second, you will get 1 riposte every 5 seconds.

Thats 100agro / 5 sec for a Vazanir
Thats 60 agro / 5 sec for DBoW

Say double riposte will add 50% to those numbers
Vaza will put out 30h/sec and DBoW 18h/sec from ripostes.

Just the anger3 from the EoE (1ppm) will put out 10h/sec.
And compensate for the riposte diffencial.

Add to that Symbol of the Planemasters, and the DualWield
gets an even wider advantage.

[Phantron]

I have a Vanazir and a BoW.

The only reason to have DBoW + EoE aggro is to beat another DBoW + EoE. At least with my guild people are too wimpy to use the aggro DBoW + EoE gives. Your guild might be more adventrous but it's not hard for wizards to unload all mana even with just VDD. If you have a DBoW + EoE you'd still never use those weapons on a boss because if the boss does any kind fo anti-aggro at all (and many do) you'll soon be dead. Therefore Vanazir beats DBoW + EoE in basically all situation except when you're the MT on a raid. Even for trash clearing all DBoW + EoE does is makes your cleric have to heal 2 persons instead of 1, provided at least one person is using DBoW + EoE. If someone is dumb enough to get aggro off a DBoW + EoE adding another DBoW + EoE isn't going to stop that person. It's usually stuff like tashing the mob before it's even in camp and adding more DBoW won't solve that problem.

For groups you do not need DBoW aggro either and the AC debuff probably puts Vanazir's DPS over DBoW when you factor in what other melees do (provided there's a good number of them).

Symbol of Planemasters appears to proc equally for either DW or 2H.

What Vanazir does is lets you do the most possible damage for a warrior without dying prematurely, and still give you enough aggro that you do not need to blow AE Taunt just to get aggro back when MT dies. I suppose if you DW a Timeweaver + EoE you can achieve the same thing but that's really a wasteful combination. You can't use DBoW at all for DPS because the aggro will get you killed unless it's something weird like DBoW + Dagger of Distraction. The other person with DBoW in my guild uses Primal spear when it's not his turn up and I'm sure my Vanazir beats that combination easily. Yes he has EoE but what good is that if he's dead?

That said, when I get a DBoW I'll probably use it in an XP group just so I'll have less problems with Enchanters and their aggro.

[Celestias]

If your a good warrior you will know how to put out high dps with a dual wield combo even one so aggroing as Darkblade + offhand and still put out max dps without overaggroing.

personally I like the Primordial power sword from Rathe more so than the EoE basically because I like Runic proc more than a 155dd stun, but thats just me since I dont seem to have any problem with aggro, when I need it, I get it. Hammer of timeweaver is much more appealing offhander just to me than an EoE ^.^ Even tho Sword of Primordial power is 1 dmg less 29/30 in comparison with a 20/20 which would be a lower dps aggro combo I think if someone has this in the offhand it really makes no sense to get an EoE since the tradeoff is between having a DD proc or having a 80hp rune 80 hp heal proc for defense no matter how minor that may seem the tradeoff just isnt worth it.

As for VDD, it puts out good aggro and high dps, but so does dual wielding DBotWL + EoE/eth destroyer/Timeweaver/Primo sword etc. VDD is a solid tanking option and a reliable weapon especially with augged anger 3, I just dont prefer 2handed over 1hander's which I shall explain in a moment ^.^.

You really wont know until you've had a darkblade how exactly it works, but its very manageable and you wont just confine it to EXP groups once you see, trust me, I thought my BoW was probably pretty close in aggro to DBoTWL until I got mine, 1h is just better in terms of aggro.

Part of taking less ripostes is getting bursts of fast aggro and than cycling attacks (even while MTing) if you dont attack at all while tanking and maintain aggro you take basically 0% riposte rate as opposed to a warrior who wields a 2hander and does not cycle at all to keep aggro or just doesnt realize its benefits. Part of the benefit with 1handers is more proc rates give you the chance to burst aggro and hold it, especially with the new Incite line to give an extra pad to your aggro. I cant count the number of times i've gone below 2k hp and turned off attack that I could have died to if I had attack on with either a dual wield or a 2hander combo if a riposte landed.

Anyways, enough of my rant!:D

[Buuhmann]

Part of taking less ripostes is getting bursts of fast aggro and than cycling attacks (even while MTing) if you dont attack at all while tanking and maintain aggro you take basically 0% riposte rate as opposed to a warrior who wields a 2hander and does not cycle at all to keep aggro or just doesnt realize its benefits. Part of the benefit with 1handers is more proc rates give you the chance to burst aggro and hold it, especially with the new Incite line to give an extra pad to your aggro. I cant count the number of times i've gone below 2k hp and turned off attack that I could have died to if I had attack on with either a dual wield or a 2hander combo if a riposte landed.

thats exactly what i did. The little flaw in this tactic: if you get a fizzle or similar in CH rot, you could get a CH, eat 2 ripostes at full HP (down to lets say 60%) and eat 2 more quads, first one hits you to 30%, you turn off atk but second one kills you. Now you switched atk off but the deadly 1h ripostes you ate were right after the last CHs and there is nothing you can do O_o.


Different question: I see all ppl here using a EoE in offhand, I certainly understand that EoE is amazing dps but how would a bloodfrenzy be compared as MTing weapon? I see the riposte mod, tweaked EB procrate, and just less 4 dam less at the same dly..

[Timmok]

Different question: I see all ppl here using a EoE in offhand, I certainly understand that EoE is amazing dps but how would a bloodfrenzy be compared as MTing weapon? I see the riposte mod, tweaked EB procrate, and just less 4 dam less at the same dly..
I think it would be better agro than EoE(but less DPS). As brodda have shown elsewhere offhand ratio hardly matters for agro purposes, only the proc.

When I went from Darkblade+BoC to Darkblade+EoE, it was a DPS boost, but agro did not "feel" better, possibly even a tiny bit worse.

However, with Darkblade+EoE+dual anger3 procs+symbol proc, you have enough agro, and in this case I think the extra HP on the EoE makes it nicer than Bloodfrenzy. And certainly EoE beats BF when it comes to exp groups where you just want max DPS(and the stun proc can be really nice too, for LDON and the like. I swear I prevent more CHs from mobs with 3 stun procs than the lazy ass paladins I sometimes group with :p).

[Phantron]

What's the point of using a DBoW for aggro if you're going to just turn attack off to avoid a very small chance of dying to Riposte? If people can't use the extra aggro you give them, then there's no point getting more aggro.

I'm not exactly convinced you can do DBoW + offhander and reliably not get aggro in a MT situation. Is really EoE really that much aggro that switching it to a different weapon guaranteeds you won't get aggro? I haven't tried offhanding EoE but it certainly isn't super aggro in the mainhand so I find that hard to believe.

On another note, Paladins are really lazy. I have interrupted more CH with kick then Paladins in my group have.

[Promethis]

I stuck Anger 3 on my VDD and never looked back. I don't plan on ever using 1h again unless there something insanely better in GoD.

I've tanked everything from exp groups to Quarm with it, no reason to give it up. And I average the highest dps of any melee minus the rogues and a monk or two (granted my current guild is Time-less).

[Battleblade]

A BoW with an Anger III aug seems to work fine for those that have them. I'm more than happy with my DBoW/EoE.

Eventually, when everyone in my guild has either their class weapon or a VDD, I will say I'm interested in one.

Until then, I either swap out the DBoW for an SEM or use an Ornate Greatblade with Ruj poison.

What I'm saying is worry about your aggro setup and make sure you get that right. Your raid DPS should be a secondary concern and in experiance groups you should be MTing anyway.

BB

[Hulanta]

My agro set up is fine... I have a BoW with Anger III. Was thinking of VDD for a DPS weapon more than anything.

[CentariAdun]

I've got the VDD + anger3 and I love it. I didnt have a BoW before, and if I did, I wouldn't have put in for it. I have punishing Blade AA maxed, but not ferocity, and I had 0 problem holding Aggro against Time-VZ last night. I wont be putting in for any 1hnders until they start to rot, as far as I'm concerned I'de rather get alot of other upgrades before trying to get 2 1hnders to replace VDD