Deity issues

[Rambuss]

Is there any way to address deity issues? I started long before it mattered and the agnostic choice did not make a big deal. No with deity based armor and stuff I am a 65 Overlord that cant get any ok gear because I am not in xyz uberguild . I love my guild were are a great bunch of folks, but if you picked no diety 3 years ago you are now unable to get the same gears and your buddy who is same race and class, WTF?

[Pumilio]

Them the breaks, btw this thread goes in the bunker

[Sulvar]

Do LDoN for the armor, anyone can win missions just might take you a while to get a full set. Or you can buy ornate in the bazaar its similar or better than most diety armor.

[Superchum]

As poster above said ...

Ornate or LDoN Adventure Points purchasable armors are your best bet.

And the 1492 armors look to be superior to be far superior to cultural diety armors, once you add in the effects and augments.

[Jakle Attakle]

It sucks. I feel your pain. I am sorry.

That's as nice as it gets around here btw. :( Everyone hates talking about the race issue on armor.

It does suck for a bunch of us, but you will feel no pain at all even up to killing Vindicator if you have some AA's and Myrm/Champ/a few quests.

After Vindicator, then that kinda makes you a raid guild anyway :D

Jakle
Iksar Overlord
Drinal Server

[Eoden]

It really hurt when in full velious armour that I had raided endlessly for (Skyshrine and a Vindi BP) I had less HP than some guys bazaar twink warrior in FH (and not even an expensive bazaar twink warrior), but now atleast theres (though very pricey) ornate aswell as some nice LDoN armour available.

[Ealsur Helevorn]

I worship Mithaniel Marr for RP reasons and I know what you mean, back then it really didnt matter.... but I only wear 1 piece of cultural and I dont plan on wearing any other, SS armor is better than agnostic cultural imo.

[uhrlik]

Agnostic cultural?

[Eoden]

Fine Heraldic? Full Mithril? Tier'Dal Regent?

[uhrlik]

The non-imbued stuff, which pretty generally sucks. :p

[Eoden]

I still use a Full Mithril Bracer... AC, HPs and Saves are all superior to Sky Shrine and Ornate isnt a big enough improvement to justify spending 50 on it. Even if I did win an ornate bracer mold I'd prolly either sell it / twink with it / give to a guildy who needed rather than waste a 50k item on a 15hp 3ac 10atk upgrade.

Sure RZ Cultural is better, but for the ease of getting an agnostic wearable bracer compared to what else is available its a pretty decent item given the alternatives available.

[KaoraEci]

I picked Mithaniel Marr 3 years ago for RP reasons, and to this day never regret that decision, sure i may not be able to grab some of the better armor out there, but the character value means a lot more to me.

[Partha]

Sorry, no tears from me. I remember when everyone said 'go agnostic, man! No faction issues!'. It was, in the beginning, a cheap and easy workaround that had no negatives to it. Now that there are negatives.........no.

I was Rallos when Rallos wasn't cool......and I still don't own any of the armor. :p

[Zukobim AB]

I can sort of understand why diety armor is good, but why agnostic armor is so much worse I do not understand.
I can also not accept that dieties get good armor and at the same time get easy ways to work around factions, like Scalp of the Ghoul Lord.
Remove the diety restriction on items, like the scalp, so the agnostic toons get the benefit from the better factions and the disadvantage from the worse armor.

[Asharad]

Another agnostic warrior here, and I'm okay with it, however...


The trainers in PoK..ever talk to them? They sorta hint that there is a way to change deities. Now, I know that for 5 years now people have suggested there is a quest somewhere in game to do this (and by people I mean players- not anyone in the know) and no quest has ever shown up.

It just struck me the other day as odd..I'll find and post the text later.

[Frodlin7th]

While I was getting raped by the dorfs at the docks of Butcherblock at level 9 having lost 3 corpses, and people were laughing at me for having been fool enough to pick RZ diety, I told them "Eventually I'm going to find a benefit for taking the hard road".

Excuse me if I feel little sympathy for people who took agnostic because it was easier overall.

[Spliskin]

Originally posted by Zukobim AB
I can sort of understand why diety armor is good, but why agnostic armor is so much worse I do not understand.
I can also not accept that dieties get good armor and at the same time get easy ways to work around factions, like Scalp of the Ghoul Lord.
Remove the diety restriction on items, like the scalp, so the agnostic toons get the benefit from the better factions and the disadvantage from the worse armor.

Just to clarify this..Rallos Zek Barbarian warriors can NOT wear ghoul lord scalp..there are race restrictions as well as deity restrictions.

[Jakle Attakle]

/sheds a tear for all those brave enough to pick the WARLORD as their deity, and their eventual vindication...

omg this entire thread holds about as much water as an A cup at a wet t-shirt contest!

[Eoden]

While I was getting raped by the dorfs at the docks of Butcherblock at level 9 having lost 3 corpses, and people were laughing at me for having been fool enough to pick RZ diety, I told them "Eventually I'm going to find a benefit for taking the hard road".

Excuse me if I feel little sympathy for people who took agnostic because it was easier overall.
To me, this sounds a little too much like knights using the kunark era to justify lack of class balance today.

;)

[uhrlik]

Some of us chose Agnostic as a RP choice.

[Valeris]

Erollisi Marr Baby! :p

[Ealsur Helevorn]

When I talked about Agnostic cultural it was the non-imbued version yes.
And If I had to choose betweena Full Mithril bracer and a Myrmidon, well, my STA is still 202 unbuffed, so, 30hp on mithril vs 15hp 5sta (around 45hp) plus other stats on myrm... I personally go with Myrm.

But sure its a pretty decent item given the alternatives available :)

[Frodlin7th]

To me, this sounds a little too much like knights using the kunark era to justify lack of class balance today.

No, because if I were level 9 today, the dorfs would still kick the snot out of me. It's still a decided disadvantage. Diety should have ALWAYS had an offsetting advntage to it's various disadvantages. It didn't until diety armor came out. It was the fixing of a balance issue, not the creation of one. Particularly now with LDoN armors so easy to acquire, it's non issue really. There's an offsetting benefit to the disadvantages of selecting a diety, this is a good thing. Those who wanted the "easy life" of no drawbacks for being agnostic or picking a short fat drunken Paladin or a wuss who has his followers "valoroously" hide out in North Freeport while they send newbie paladins to kill women or to asassinate city leaders as their diety get their "reward" of a bland series of armor, or having to *gasp* leave the bazaar for armor.

I accept that gnomes get cooler right clicks on their tinkered armor than I do, and that I had to camp stormefeather for a similar efffect. Such is the benefit to being a gnome.

[uhrlik]

While I understand it, I'm still a little miffed that half elves get no cultural tradeskills whatsoever.

[Frodlin7th]

I'm a half elf, and smithing is "the tradeskill that goes nowhere" while I fish in PoWater to get my baking skill post 200.

I hate the fact that there's not a similar route of increasing smithing skill post 175 without doing gay acrylia stuff, but...

Such is the offsetting disadvantage for being able to put on so much in the way of cultural armor.

I get the benefit of being able to wear most types of cultural armor, far more thn any other race, and because of that, I accept the drawback of not being able to make any.

[uhrlik]

Hence the "while I understand it" in my post as I'm a half elf as well. ;)

[Valeris]

The additional scope hardly provides an advantage though when they're all much of a muchness and/or give stat boosts that are meaningless (dark elven INT cultural).

The whole point of tradeskills surely is to make something with 'your own hands' for you to wear cause it sure ain't better than mob drops most times.

Yeah, half elf here too.

[Eoden]

Frodlin,

Sure if you were level 9 today the dwarves would still kick the shit out of you, but quite frankly who cares? what reason does todays level 9 character have to catch the boat in butcher block.

In Kunark Deity is relevant in 2 zones, Firiona Vie and The Overthere. I'm not RZ so I don't know, but does worshiping RZ actually make a difference in either of these zones?

In Velious the only effect diety had was being able to make a lvl1 ogre who wasnt KoS in all of Kael. My bind point in my 50's got moved to Thurg as did most people I knew. Deity was irrelevant to faction once you'd killed a giant or 2 and there was nothing I needed to travel to old world citys to buy that I couldn't buy there. In my opinion this is when old world factions not longer had any real effect on your character for anything other than RP reasons.

In Luclin we gained the spires and the relatively factionless Shadowhaven, now you could get from Greater Faydark to Kunark or any other continent without braving the fierce dorfs of butchblock.

In PoP the spires were superceded by the factionless Plane of knowledge so now you can pop up there to buy spells and pop down to the hunting ground of your choice without ever having to worry about the faction issues brought about by your diety.

So you are trying to tell me that because of all the horrendous faction issues suffered by a level 9 RZ worshiper in todays game, not back when you started playing, the level 9 warrior who chose agnostic (or wanted to be a dorf) should lose the oportunity to have the best value for plat tradeable legs and bracers out there?

If there were reasonable alternatives of tradeable 80hp legs then I might think that was a fair perk for following RZ - something like turning the mana on other culturals into hps and a smaller ratio than 1 for 1 on RZ gear (1 hp for 2 mana so the legs were 60hps for example, and yes I know the bracers aren't 2 for 1 so no need to bring that up).

edit: grammar

[Partha]

So you are trying to tell me that because of all the horrendous faction issues suffered by a level 9 RZ worshiper in todays game, not back when you started playing, the level 9 warrior who chose agnostic (or wanted to be a dorf) should lose the oportunity to have the best value for plat tradeable legs and bracers out there?

It's that way regardless of agnostic or non-Rallos worship. And yeah, it's a tradeoff. However, giving them equal access to RZ-type gear for no penalty - that sounds an awful lot like Paladin thinking.

[Arnan]

phooey on fair! tradesfolk had very few items that were sought after by the player base. They added the ability to make items that smiths for example would be able to sell. The RP reason was high level smith could recieve a boon from the diety they worshiped. If you are gonna have diety pluses in cultural armor, then RZ is gonna give the best warrior stats. If you chose the "warlord" as your diety when you made your character, SURPRISE" you were now able to dump a ton of your stored up PPs for armor that was better then HoT and WToV in certain items.

For those of you who grinded it out in WToV or HoT and later saw some warrior in "bought" armor with more hps. Oh well, good thing guilds who are going for time flags need to have about 70 to 80 people in the guild. This allows players who were never able to get into the high end guilds to get EP armor which blows away RZ cultural armor anyway.

And as other folks have pointed it. Tak armor with a 40 hp aug and your choice of 2 other augs is better then everything except VT or better, (and I have seen debates on the BP being one of the 3 best BPs in the game)

I still remember taking 3 groups into Mistmore to kill the damn gypsies for my Crafted BP =)

[gulug]

well, as an agnostic ogre, i dont mind it if agnostic amour is not as good as RZ, to make up for whatever perceived disadvantages there were. right now, there nothing that even comes even in the same ballpark.

and let me say this, agnostic or not, heck id still be kos to the BB dwarves.

[dreadx]

I petitioned a gm a few months back asking if there was a way to change diety, they said there was not but that they have had lots of requests for diety change and that they may be implementing some quests to change diety in the future.

[Jakle Attakle]

Wow! That and $3.75 will get you a double grande macchiato :p

[ThornyEQ]

Well, the talk here is a lot about RZ armor (Fierce Heraldic), but many of us barbarian warriors chose agnostic in the early days purely because of RP reasons; it really wouldn't have hurt our faction much, if at all, to go with the Tribunal, so we chose agnostic over the Tribunal purely for RP reasons (think of a warrior that trusts his skills more than he does the hand of a God guiding him into battle...pure RP).

Now here comes Helanic Tundra armor, arguably a better armor set for a warrior than even Fierce Heraldic, yet because of an RP (not a convenience/ease) reason, we're stuck without the benefit of a nice set of armor. With Helanic Tundra, the differences are even more obvious than with Fierce Heraldic. Here's a comparison of the breastplate and legs for the agnostic (Fine Heraldic), RZ and Tribunal armor:

Fine Heraldic BP (agnostic/any): AC: +51 Sta: +5 HP: +40 Mana: +40
Fierce Heraldic (Rallos Zek): AC: +51 Str: +10 Dex: +5 Sta: +5 HP: +80
Helanic Tundra (Tribunal): AC: +51 Str: +10 Sta: +10 HP: +80

Fine Heraldic Greaves (agnostic/any): AC: +40 HP: +40 Mana: +40
Fierce Heraldic Greaves (Rallos Zek): AC: +40 Dex: +5 Sta: +5 HP: +80
Helanic Tundra Greaves (Tribunal): AC: +40 Sta: +10 HP: +80

Remember, Tribunal followers don't have the same faction issues that RZ followers do, so there's really no downside one way or the other to having chosen to follow the Tribunal, yet simply because of an RP decision, just on those two pieces alone agnostic barbies (and humans and half-elves who may have had the choice to follow the Tribunal but chose to remain agnostic) lose 80 HP's, 15 STA (potentially close to 100 more HP's there), and 10 STR in the deal.

Even though these days the "faction penalty" for being RZ is negligible, I can kind of understand the penalty-vs.-bonus idea behind RZ armor; I cannot understand the same for Tribunal armor.

[Cuclain MacLlir]

Regarding Helanic armor, 99.9% of the plate wearing Tribunal worshippers in game are warriors. That's why the stats, for the most part, only include stats warriors use. My question is, since the other .1% are bards, why is there wis on my belt?

[NinjaBurger]

You want shitty cultural take a look at this....

http://lucy.fnord.net/itemlist.html?searchtext=fearsome+skyiron

Iksar have to share their Cultural with Shadow Knights AND Shamans....and it's tuned for the Shamans >_<

[Valeris]

Cribbed from Fan Faire tradeskills panel notes - EQ traders.

There are no plans for any way to change your religion or to acquire one if you are agnostic, however appealing it may be in a roleplaying sense.

Skill modifiers do not stack.

There are ideas to allow half elves to "show their culture". This was in response to a request for half elven cultural, even if it's quest based. It was implied that it will be somehow related to tradeskills, but no details were given.

[uhrlik]

Yeah, it'll all be tuned to rogues or bards though. :rolleyes:

[Glatius2]

This whole race/religion/armor thing strikes me as envy. Perhaps justifiable envy, but envy none the less. When I chose Tribunal as my character's religion there was no particular benefit involved. If I'd gone agnostic it would have been better for my faction across the lands of Norrath. But I picked Tribunal because it fit in with my concept of my Warrior and I dealt with the negatives.

SoE comes along as decides to create player made armor. And they decide that as cultural armor it is going to be primarily wearable by people who stick within the major norm of their particular culture. Bad idea? I don't know. Frankly as a Barbarian smith, having all large and medium races able to wear the armor I make would be super. I have in inventory right now on my bazaar mule two Helanic BPs, a set of legs, 3 bracers, 2 girdles, 2 helms, a cloak, 1 shoulder, and a set of arms and nothing has sold in almost a month.

So being able to sell my armor to anyone who wanted it, rather than just tribunal followers, would in all likelihood increase my bank account considerably. Yet, I still believe there is value in restricting by diety. For example, if tribunal armor was wearable by anyone, how much RZ armor would sell?

And if they gave every culture an identical imbue with identical stats what would be the point in cultural armor anyway? They might have just as well called it Super Fine Steel Plate, made it all the exact same armor, and been done with it.

SoE tried to add some flavor to the game. They tried to give some differences between the various cultures, to give them their own individual feel so to speak. Yet all they get is grief from people who can't wear what they consider to be the very best player made armor for their class. Seems like maybe SoE would have been better off putting in generic armor and forgetting about trying to add depth and interest to the game.

[Tugurok]

I chose agnostic as a role play decision. I didn't want to follow some cookie cutter roleplay guideline with the whole god of war thing, so my character is a brutal ogre who takes what he can from the world with his right arm. That's why I still do smithing, even though I can't even wear what I make, which is totally lame.

Agnostic ogres have nearly exactly as many faction problems as ogres with deities, and it's completely lame that some bazaar twink warrior can buy armor that's significantly better than my hard won ToV armor that I worked my ass off for.

[Valeris]

And if they gave every culture an identical imbue with identical stats what would be the point in cultural armor anyway? They might have just as well called it Super Fine Steel Plate, made it all the exact same armor, and been done with it. In the case of most Deity based plate armour except Rallos zek and Tribunal that's virtually exactly what they did anyway.

[Glatius2]

it's completely lame that some bazaar twink warrior can buy armor that's significantly better than my hard won ToV armor that I worked my ass off for.

You know what's even lamer? That they have basically set cultural/ToV armor as the minimum base point to even be considered reasonably geared to fight in PoP. They've made acquiring cultural or something similar a requirement.

Yes, people in HoT caliber gear will do okay, in the first tier or so. Mudflation at work I guess.

[Valeris]

There's been a lot of itemisation filling the 'gap' between cultural/skyshrine and crafted/crusty etc in LDoN and elsewhere from what I'm seeing in the bazaar. i'd think you can get by without HoT+ now in the first couple of tiers.