Secnod best tank BP in game = LDoN vendor? [Archive]

Aldarion_Shard

09-19-2003, 03:51 PM

But hybrid/pure itemization has been out of whack for a long time now. Why would we expect them to change?

great question, but there isin fact an answer.

you see, the AHR BP (Shadows) is wearable by all plate classes. But, of course, any guild that allows a paladin to loot it has taken retardation to a previously unknown level - similiar to that guild where a BoW was looted by a SK.

I think its safe to say that if an item takes 40+ people to attain it, SOME mechanism will be in place to make sure it goes to the right person, despite what classes are listed.

However, paladins can walk up to the vendor and buy this BP without any common sense intefering.

In otehr words, with raid drops, common sense prevents these items from going to paladins.

In single group stuff, this wont happen.

Thus, its fucked up.

Gallerus

09-19-2003, 04:03 PM

But, of course, any guild that allows a paladin to loot it has taken retardation to a previously unknown level - similiar to that guild where a BoW was looted by a SK.

uhm actually I dont think thats similar at all & I see no reason a paladin/sk shouldnt be allowed to have a aten bp, especially in a dkp guild. The step up from say vindi/statue bp to aten bp while nice, isnt that great, certainly nothing along lines of importance that a bow has for a warrior.

Cily

09-19-2003, 04:44 PM

It has been reported, by someone with the points and augs to prove it, that identical augs wont go into a single piece of gear.

True or not, I dont know, but it has a lot more evidence behind it then all the pure speculation about this gear that has been presented thus far.

Now, if you can stack on all 3, I can sort of agree it trivializes perhaps ornate level BP's, but then again, getting a plate ornate BP is trivial as it is. Hardly a surprise.

Concensus - yea, it is a great item. However, I suspect it will not become the vindi BP of the velious era. Warriors will be found wearing various BPs and not the same cookie cutter set-up that many fear will happen.

Cily

Wolveren

09-19-2003, 08:34 PM

The 10ac augmentations from BB merchants only go on face, neck, shoulders, back and waist.

SSharlon

09-20-2003, 04:05 AM

I think I would be bashing my head aganst the walls after 97 mission, but to each his own :)

Brutul

09-20-2003, 01:05 PM

That's true Frodlin, I didn't take into consideration that you could augment Seru/Aten bps. I still think though, if it was my BP, I would put at least 1 AC augment into it over the 3x 40 hp mods.

FennyMT

09-20-2003, 04:23 PM

augs are lore inside an item. i have the legs with one of the takish 40hp augs mounted; and another takish 40hp aug in the bank because it wouldnt go in =(

when i get enough points for the rujark 40hp i'm going to try putting that in. it may turn out you cant even augment the same stat twice in an item.

Mokor Leadheaad

09-21-2003, 05:01 AM

not to mention pally/sk can stick in a +10 sta/wis or /int aug unless their sta is maxed im sure +10 sta is more then 40hp
meanwhile the most sta we can aug with semi usefull melee stats is +5 the best i see currently being +5 dex/sta +20hp

the +10 sta aug also fits in all areas with this armor the pally sk can max thier sta/in/wis by useing just 1 slot on each item +the unauged mana + mana augs +ft augs in the type 3 slots +hp augs now that is seriously unbalanced shit in a armor set.

meanwhile that average war with this set is wondering wtf!!

Timmok

09-21-2003, 06:21 AM

In light of the new info that you cannot put 2 of the same augment in an item, I have revised my temporary goal for replacing my legs. Will shoot for:

Malevolent Greaves of Suffering (760 points - Mira)
AC:44, Sta:8, Cha:8, Wis:5, Int:5, HP:165(aug'ed), Mana:65, CR:10, MR:10

Slot 1: Eroded Soil of Tenacity - 25 HP (510 points - Mir)
Slot 2: Yellowish Magnetite of Vitality - 30 HP (760 points - Guk)
Slot 3: Solid Coal of Prowess - 40 HP (1150 points - Ruj)

Total Point Cost: 3180 points
Normal Missions: 63
Total time to obtain (@45mins pr mission): 48 hours

Also interesting to note that you get a bit more bang for your buck with the 20-30hp augs. On those you pay 17points/1hp, whereas for the 40 hp augs you pay 29points/1hp.

Mokor Leadheaad

09-21-2003, 07:54 AM

check the slot types on thoes legs type 1 type2 and type 3. 2 of your augs are type 2 one wont fit. max would be 70hp with those legs. leaveing the type 3 slot or type 1 slot open. you might be able to get +110hp if the 2 different +40 hp augs stack. then you would have to be careful on the order since type "all" augs fill up the next open slot. you would have to put them in +40 then +30 then other +40 if you stuck the +40's in first the type 2 slot would be filled makeing it so you couldn't add the +30 and you would have to find a type 3 or remove the +40 in the type 2 slot

all or any type augs fill the first open slot regardless of the type slot it is. type # will fill only type # slots.

the tak leggs would work with your aug set up haveing type2 type 2 type 3 slots just nake sure you put the "all" +40 hp aug in last

EmiliaEQ

09-21-2003, 09:11 AM

I have the feeling augments insertion/removal are sequential :

You cant put an agument in slot 2 , if slot 1 is empty
You cant remove slot 2 if 1 or 3 arent empty
(dont remember seeing any info, but i'm really curious on that one)

This is going to be a PITA

Brutul

09-21-2003, 09:52 AM

I think if you have different kinds of slots you are ok. The vendor sells type 1 solvent, type 2 solvent etc, but I'm not sure what will happen if you have two type 2 slots on one item.

Thalzaar

09-21-2003, 09:53 AM

augments work like this. If it's a type 1 aug, only type 1 and "all" augs will fit

if it's type 2, then type 1, 2, and all will fit

if it's type 3, then type 1,2,3 and all

etc...etc...

so you can put a type 2 in a type 3 slot. A friend of mine was trying things out and managed to put a type 1 in a type 3 and such so i believe you can put an aug up to that number in instead of only 2's go in 2's and 4's go in 4's.

Brutul

09-21-2003, 09:56 AM

Hmm, right after I posted I found out how the stripper works.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3163

Mokor Leadheaad

09-21-2003, 02:10 PM

type 1 and all/any are the same aug types to add yet more confusion.

Draganetti

09-21-2003, 03:18 PM

Yeah, solvents work on SLOT one, two, or three, regardless of what TYPE of aug it is.

magnes

09-21-2003, 05:02 PM

i know of 3 other BP's with 80AC or higher that are Warrior usable, so is this BP number 2?

Eriatha Egan

09-21-2003, 05:33 PM

I just want to do the following:

Buy:
Royal Attendant Breastplate of the Sand - 1492pts
AC:69, Sta:13, Cha:11, Wis:10, Int:10, HP:100, Mana:100, CR:12, MR:12, PR:12, type2,type2,type3

And:
Solid Coal of Prowess - 1150pts
HP:40 (ALL) (Rujarkian)

And:
Glowing Saphire of Courage - 1150pts
HP:40 (Aug2) (Takish)

And:
Yellowish Magnetite of Vitality - 760pts
HP:30 (Aug2) (Guk)

And create for a total of 4552pts:

Royal Attendant Breastplate of Uberness
AC:69, Sta:13, Cha:11, Wis:10, Int:10, HP:210, Mana:100, CR:12, MR:12, PR:12

************************************************** *

Will that work?

Mokor Leadheaad

09-22-2003, 07:14 AM

should

Cardinal

09-22-2003, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by Thalzaar
augments work like this. If it's a type 1 aug, only type 1 and "all" augs will fit

if it's type 2, then type 1, 2, and all will fit

if it's type 3, then type 1,2,3 and all

etc...etc...

so you can put a type 2 in a type 3 slot. A friend of mine was trying things out and managed to put a type 1 in a type 3 and such so i believe you can put an aug up to that number in instead of only 2's go in 2's and 4's go in 4's.

Er.. no . . . at least not in the current in game augment code. On day 1 of LoDN I was assured this was how it was from numerous sources so I bought a +3 dam mod type 5 aug thinking that it would fit nicely into my Type 8 slotted Time weapon. No Joy... so I got a never to be used (unless some patch changes things..) augment sitting in my bank forever.... thank god it was only 220 points, had I done the same with a 700+ ap proc augment, I would have had to chop some heads off....

For now anyway, type 5 WILL NOT fit into a type 8 and so forth.

- Card

Thalzaar

09-22-2003, 10:31 AM

did you check the delay on the augment? some of those +dam augments have a minimum delay and such.

EmiliaEQ

09-22-2003, 10:58 AM

Type 1 will fit ANYWHERE , as long as there is no armor limitation.

So a Type1 upgrade can go in a "Legs" with Type2 Type2.
If that Type1 is allowed to be put on "Legs"

I doubt a Type 2 augment would fit a Type 3 slot.

Phantron

09-22-2003, 01:14 PM

Type 4 will not into a type 8 slot.

Come to think of it, does type 1 augments even exist?

DurgoECI

09-22-2003, 03:22 PM

EDIT:: The following assumes all other restrictions (armor slot limitations, lore, whatever else) are met.

Type:1 and Type:All are the same. These type of augments can go into ANY slot, regardless of what type the slot is.

For every other type (2-8), they can ONLY go in the same type of slot. A type2 augment CANNOT go in a type3 slot.

So, for the example above:
Buy:
Royal Attendant Breastplate of the Sand - 1492pts
AC:69, Sta:13, Cha:11, Wis:10, Int:10, HP:100, Mana:100, CR:12, MR:12, PR:12, type2,type2,type3

And:
Solid Coal of Prowess - 1150pts
HP:40 (ALL) (Rujarkian)

And:
Glowing Saphire of Courage - 1150pts
HP:40 (Aug2) (Takish)

And:
Yellowish Magnetite of Vitality - 760pts
HP:30 (Aug2) (Guk)

And create for a total of 4552pts:

Royal Attendant Breastplate of Uberness
AC:69, Sta:13, Cha:11, Wis:10, Int:10, HP:210, Mana:100, CR:12, MR:12, PR:12

You can do this, but you have to apply the augments in the right order.

The Solid Coal of Prowess is Type:All, meaning it will go in the first available slot. If you apply it first, and then one of the others, you'll get:
slot1, type2: Solid Coal of Prowess (typeAll)
slot2, type2: Glowing Saphire of Courage (type2)
slot3, type3: Empty
You will not be able to apply the Yellowish Magnetit of Vitality at this point, since a type2 cannot go in a type3 slot.

You need to apply BOTH of the type2 augments first, so that you have:
slot1, type2: Glowing Saphire of Courage (type2)
slot2, type2: Yellowish Magnetite of Vitality (type2)
slot3, type3: Empty

Then you can apply the Solid Coal of Prowess and it will fill slot3.

FulorianC

09-22-2003, 04:45 PM

I bought a Slot 2 augmentation today, and tried to put into a type 8 item. Item slot restrictions were fine, and it wouldn't work. Quit talking out your ass, your costing people time and effort.

DurgoECI

09-22-2003, 07:20 PM

Who are you referring to Fulorian? Because that's exactly what I said.

Splaktar

09-22-2003, 10:52 PM

Buy:
Royal Attendant Breastplate of the Sand - 1492pts
AC:69, Sta:13, Cha:11, Wis:10, Int:10, HP:100, Mana:100, CR:12, MR:12, PR:12, type2,type2,type3

And:
Solid Coal of Prowess - 1150pts
HP:40 (ALL) (Rujarkian)

And:
Glowing Saphire of Courage - 1150pts
HP:40 (Aug2) (Takish)

And:
Yellowish Magnetite of Vitality - 760pts
HP:30 (Aug2) (Guk)

And create for a total of 4552pts:

Royal Attendant Breastplate of Uberness
AC:69, Sta:13, Cha:11, Wis:10, Int:10, HP:210, Mana:100, CR:12, MR:12, PR:12

Yeah, I can confirm this, saw one of these today.

binke

09-23-2003, 03:33 AM

Which means that anyone that can play 3h a day.(hence do 3-4 missions).

Dam you must be really uber if you can actually get a group to start and finish a mission in one hour.

1.Normally it takes me 1 to 4 hour LFA, till i get a invite.
2.Then 30min to 1 hour till the group fills in.
3.Then about 5 to 15 min til we buff up and zone into camp.
4.Then if we are lucky, done with the mission under one hour.
5.Then 10 to 30 min ... spliting cash, rolling for cash, members going afk for drink/bathroom breaks etc.

6.Then repeat #2 if someone in your group leaves, if not move to #3.

LoL at this rate lucky to do one mission under 3 hours.

EmiliaEQ

09-23-2003, 07:22 AM

Dam you must be really uber if you can actually get a group to start and finish a mission in one hour.

Uber dunno, lucky i dont think.
I'm on a deserted server with barely 150 people having LDoN atm.
Half of which are in my guild.

We do have a servewide channel, that the "chosen few" gather.

As soon as there is a cleric, or a drood/shaman combo lfg.
There's a group done, and with 3/4 2boxed ench perma at EC.
KEI refresh for all LDoN'rs isnt an issue.

Grumbam

09-23-2003, 08:36 PM

Dam you must be really uber if you can actually get a group to start and finish a mission in one hour.

1.Normally it takes me 1 to 4 hour LFA, till i get a invite.
2.Then 30min to 1 hour till the group fills in.
3.Then about 5 to 15 min til we buff up and zone into camp.
4.Then if we are lucky, done with the mission under one hour.
5.Then 10 to 30 min ... spliting cash, rolling for cash, members going afk for drink/bathroom breaks etc.

6.Then repeat #2 if someone in your group leaves, if not move to #3.

LoL at this rate lucky to do one mission under 3 hours.

Errrr.. you do this:

/tell < cleric in your guild> hi! meet in everfrost for ldon in 10 mins kk?

/tell < beastlord in your guild> hi! meet in everfrost for ldon in 10 mins kk?

/tell < enchanter in your guild> hi! meet in everfrost for ldon in 10 mins kk?

/tell < rogue in your guild> hi! meet in everfrost for ldon in 10 mins kk?

/tell < rogue in your guild> hi! meet in everfrost for ldon in 10 mins kk?

proceed to the camp spot and invite your 5 friends, while they buff the group talk to the adventure givers until you get a mission you like, proceed to the zone.

Standing around hoping total strangers find you and decide to invite you to a group is an unsuccessful strategy.

It's good to meet new people that way but if you are out to get points or exp, group with your guildmates and friends on your server that have the same playtimes as you do.

wandor

09-24-2003, 01:57 AM

That BP set up not only works, it's already been made ...

Eriatha Egan

09-24-2003, 02:50 AM

Yep, got linked one in guild chat the other day. Damn that thing is just uber, but on the same token, BP's of that calibre tend to have better all-around stats :P. I guess that's just the tradeoff for being able to acquire such an awesome BP without raiding.

Valeris

09-24-2003, 12:41 PM

EmiliaEQ

09-24-2003, 05:47 PM

Nice Bp, but for anyone not already in a VT/elemental plus guild the loss of stat's will be a noteworthy tradeoff. I can only imagine whoever somehow has already made this has a very high playtime (and thus is almost certainly a high end raider anyway).

What you forget is the "Casual Player01" will be able to by this BP.
Even at the rate of 10 adventures per week.
Will take time, but he WILL get it. It is withing his grasp.
While AHR/Seru/Raex are not possible even in 10 years
keeping his current gaming rate.

The "Uber Player01" will be able to get this BP too.
(No DKP spend, or Not Enought DKP for Elemental)

A "high end player" can get this BP under 2-3 weeks.
(4000 points in 10 days and not pushing the limit like mad for me).
Many will because once they have upgraded the 40hp slots.
A BP is the only way out (DKP or Non DKP guild, Time or no Time).

If u can put 100h into LDoN you will end up with this BP.
Doesnt matter if u put those 100h in 10 days or 4 months.

Pumilio

09-28-2003, 09:50 AM

The thing I really look forward to is not tricking the BP out, but taking and getting the off slots first such as hands or others. I think that's the grooviest.

Hell +80hp and then slap on the vengence in the slot3 is nice also.

Pumilio

09-28-2003, 09:52 AM

oh, and I forgot, add in the fact you can now buy 36% to go onto certain slots, infravision, etc. and wars can now get some nice toys without having to farm plat (which without a tradeskill or a pocket healer can be rough for some)

LDoN is a godsend for the plat challenged.

Valeris

09-28-2003, 12:24 PM

What you forget is the "Casual Player01" will be able to by this BP.
Even at the rate of 10 adventures per week.
Will take time, but he WILL get it. It is withing his grasp.
While AHR/Seru/Raex are not possible even in 10 years
keeping his current gaming rate.

The "Uber Player01" will be able to get this BP too.
(No DKP spend, or Not Enought DKP for Elemental)

A "high end player" can get this BP under 2-3 weeks.
(4000 points in 10 days and not pushing the limit like mad for me).
Many will because once they have upgraded the 40hp slots.
A BP is the only way out (DKP or Non DKP guild, Time or no Time).

If u can put 100h into LDoN you will end up with this BP.
Doesnt matter if u put those 100h in 10 days or 4 months.

Not sure if you are for or against Emilia but if against my response is 'so what'? I don't quite equate how this 'lessens your gaming experience'. You got the bragging rights for doing the Planes and etc and good for you.

In any case, once a non uber has spent the weeks or months to afford this BP he's then got to go back and do the same thing over and over again for every other part of his inventory before he can hope to match an average raiders package overall.

Then you run into further limitations like augments useable only in certain spots, LORE tagged augs etc.

Frankly i think the closing of the gap between uber and Non is quite deliberate on Sony's part. What with raiding content, high playtime AA totals etc the gap between uber and non is getting so wide that you almost require a different game environment for the two types. LDoN's 'normal' and 'hard' settings might be considered a good indicator... If they want to design any further single expansions that provide equal use to Uber and casual that gap probably needs to close from their viewpoint.

/shrug

Pumilio

09-28-2003, 01:14 PM

I think valeris just hit on something I wasn't thinking of. LDoN is probably meant to get the mean population closer to that of the high end players gear. or closeish if they put the time in.

Give a few months and int casters will be hitting the ft cap a bit more often ; )

if someone solely lvs from 20-65 in dungeons they just might have some pretty sweet gear at that point.

Auron

09-28-2003, 09:19 PM

They are gonna fix this i believe as it wasnt intended.

Gnomb

09-29-2003, 03:09 AM

I just wish the thing had graphics and i wouldnt run around nakid.

Terrorus

09-29-2003, 01:17 PM

Work 9 hours, Raid 9 hours, Sleep 6hours...how the hell do you ugys get to play LDoN so much. Im lucky if I can get 1 mission a night done. =/

Crystara

09-29-2003, 02:44 PM

Your guild is also at the point where you can and will raid alot more then normal, I remember doing those 12 hour HoT and ssra raids, once your done with that section of the game you'll get more exp time back.

EmiliaEQ

09-30-2003, 05:21 AM

I am not against the LDoN loot style. Actually Valeris i am very
happy this BP exists because it will give some guildmates a
choice at a BP better than ToV/Kael (what most still wear).

It will also give non raiders, non ubers, non HC, very high
quality gear that almost competes with what the raiders can get.

Sure 5000AP is exepensive ... 100 missions .....

But it u look at it compared to EP loot ...
100 missions, at 1h per mission (we're talking about EP quality loot)
Aint really too far from the 1 loot per 12-15 days most EP raiders will see.
12-15 days at 4-5h per day for 1 loot .. vs 100h LDoN for 1 loot.

As for non EP, well it will take you much longer. Why ?
Because you cant just EP loot that easy.

Of course this varies depending on server competition, class competition, luck etc etc.
To me LDoN uber = same stats as Elemental but 30% longer to attain
Raiders get better items, becaus of the clusterfuck they have
to endure (50 people raids, competition, flags, Mandatory raids)

This items are designed to be RvR or actually TvR (Time vs Reward)
while looking at the elementals.

I am really happy SOE decided to close the gap between :
Raiders vs Non Raiders and High Playtime vs Low Playtime.

Good items now have a set price. If you want them, do the time.

I know it aint fair Tyson can by a Ferrari once per month.
But if u are lucky enough and work long enough, you too have a shot at that Ferrari.

Before LDoN, there was a tag "Raiders only" on that Ferrari.
Now its "5000AP" ...

While its not perfect, its a step in the right direction.

Trot02

09-30-2003, 10:05 AM

they should nerf this bp hard

Aldarion_Shard

09-30-2003, 12:06 PM

I am really happy SOE decided to close the gap between :
Raiders vs Non Raiders and High Playtime vs Low Playtime.

Relative power increases are the driving force behind this game. That is, the "point" of EQ is to make your character more pwoerful over time. But, of course, you need a relative standard for this - there *should* be a gap between raiders and non-raiders, between low-playtime and high-playtime, between tank specialists hp and tank genealists hp.

Otherwise, whats the fuckin point of putting in time, if not to become more pwoerful than you would ahve had you not put in the time?

This BP is a sign of the idiocy that is currently running amuk at SOE. Its nothing new, but its certainly not a good thing.

Its not exclusive to SOE, its our culture. The idiotic idea that everyone should be equal, regardless of what they do to earn their rewards. Thus we have welfare, thus we have affirmative action, thus we have ridiculous anti-male pro-female legislation regarding divorce, vasectomies, and employment. It is a cancer at the very center of our society. And its growing....

landrain

09-30-2003, 12:15 PM

Actually...

I compare the LDON BP to the Cultural BP's released a while ago..

The LDON is a huge improvement.

Cultural, screwed agnostics and certain religions, made you a slave to that GM smith, etc etc etc..

At least the LDON is available to anyone who can defeat enough adventures. That is fair...

What is wrong is the fact that NO GEAR outside of LDON has more than one slot, That IM is just stupid.

How to fix it?

Required level > 50 give 2 slots...

Required Level > 60 give 3 slots...

also allow different types than 1 and 4....

This would keep the Elemental/Planar gear above LDON bought gear... And keep the relative RvR for each comparable..

Kildace

09-30-2003, 12:20 PM

Why yes, let's mudflate the game even more ...

EmiliaEQ

09-30-2003, 01:00 PM

Why yes, let's mudflate the game even more ...

The average player wont be getting this BP for at least 2 month.
The higher than average player will need about 4 weeks
The High playtime player will need about 1-2 weeks.

90% of EQ population will need 2 months or more to get that BP.
A few of us will only need 1-2 weeks.

While this BP is overpowered, for the average player its gonna be
a very very very long road to getting it.

LDoN uber BP is nothing mudfation wise compared to Solstice Earring & FT3 CT boots & Fierce Heraldic

I am really happy SOE decided to close the gap between :
Raiders vs Non Raiders and High Playtime vs Low Playtime

And i still believe my point is valid.
We all agree that EQ rewards are based on the ManHours you put into the game.
The higher the manhours the better the rewards.

Up to today : 5h per day for 1 month >>>>>>>>> 1h per day for 5 months.

150h = 150h period, but there should be some distiction

The person putting 150h in 1 month deserves better rewards.
And he does (that 150h player is either a raider or a HC player).
Either by Quality loot (raiding) or by Quality (LDoN armor).

The person putting 150h in 1 month gets LDoN Quality (LDoN armor)

So for the same Time Invested they can get the same rewards, with the Hardcore
player getting better Quality (in raids).

The REAL PROBLEM with LDoN is that some guilds will be able to
skip natural EQ progression totally (ToV NToV ST SSRA etc etc).

And farm the shit out of LDoN, thus bypassing content.
This will increase overall server power (bad mudflation).

But even at 4h per day, the average Joe01 will not be able to do
5 adventures per day (Thus 20 days per EP quality item).
It will probably take 30-40 days per EP quality item.

LDoN isnt too bad for mudflation as a stand alone.
The BAD part is that it permits to skip content, which is a drama.

What would be really interesting to see (and time will tell) is :

Guild A : (N)ToV Farm completed, Natural progression
Guild B : (N)ToV Farm completed, LDoN progression

And after ... at 5h playing per day ... lets say 8 months.
Which guild will have better equipped players.

I would bet on a very crowded server Guild B will win hands down.
On a normaly crowded server ... Tie ?
On a deserted server ... well Guild A

Kildace

09-30-2003, 01:05 PM

The average player wont be getting this BP for at least 2 month.
The higher than average player will need about 4 weeks
The High playtime player will need about 1-2 weeks.

90% of EQ population will need 2 months or more to get that BP.
A few of us will only need 1-2 weeks.

While this BP is overpowered, for the average player its gonna be
a very very very long road to getting it.

LDoN uber BP is nothing mudfation wise compared to Solstice Earring & FT3 CT boots & Fierce Heraldic

I was responding to landrain.

aspit

09-30-2003, 01:08 PM

ldon is a total waste of time. Its like vi took a look at time sinks in the past expansions and said shit lets tripple it. for 23 missions i can get 40 hps added to 1 of 5 items. so 200 hps (pre pd, 209 with mod) for 115 missions, or roughly 115 hours of gameplay. Compare this to natural durability in luclin. Nd 2 gave something like 350 combined with nd 1. Thats for 6 aa at about 4 hours per aa in fg when it was badass. so 24 hours for 350 hps compared to 115 hours for 200 hps. Now look at pop with planar durability. 3 aa for 1 1/2% of my total buffed hps. Assume at the beginning of pop you had 8k hps, pp 1 is 120 hps pp 2 is 120 hps. So 6 aa for 240 hps in pop, and about 1 hour per aa in valor when pop came out. So from luclin , 24 hours for nd2, to pop, 6 hours for pd 2, to ldon, 115 hours for 200 hps. This is a total fucking waste of time to th epoint where its so blatantly retarded to even spend time in ldon, that id rather farm tier 1 time rings to gear apps.

marshall aspit
pandemonium

Trot02

09-30-2003, 01:58 PM

going from ntov to ssra to vt to pre elementals to elementals takes a hell of alot longer then 100 hours as you pointed out, so maybe this bp should take 1000 missions to complete?

and as i understand it there is not a bp with more hp until time?

what a great expansion, people are getting better loot in two weeks of LDoN then it took over a half year to get when PoP came out.

nerf

aspit

09-30-2003, 05:07 PM

im talking about time per hps in end game. Not time to get a 210 hp bp for some newbie who shouldnt have 210 hps on 3 items combined. Point is this expansion is dogshit for end game period. Its fucking fantastic that level 60 chars can get a bp with 210 hps but i cant do shit with my time loot so A they need to fix hp augs, or B add slot 8 hps augs that dont waste a day of my time to get 40 hps.

marshall aspit
pandemonium

Trot02

09-30-2003, 11:08 PM

i wasn't talking to you dumbass

Sarelin

10-03-2003, 04:54 PM

for 23 missions i can get 40 hps added to 1 of 5 items. so 200 hps (pre pd, 209 with mod) for 115 missions, or roughly 115 hours of gameplay. Compare this to natural durability in luclin. Nd 2 gave something like 350 combined with nd 1. Thats for 6 aa at about 4 hours per aa in fg when it was badass. so 24 hours for 350 hps

You missed something... in 115 missions a level 65 can make 55 or so AA's at the same time. So the person with low AA's can get ND1-3, AE Taunt, CS1-3, CA1-3, PE, LR1-5 AND the BP.

I think this is a good thing.

Now I just don't know whether to make myself a BP or fill up on all slot 40hp augments first. I THINK I'm still gonna go for a 40hp aug everywhere it'll fit, 10ac everywhere that'll go and 20hp for the rest. Total 280HPs and 50 raw AC, then wait for an AHR BP.

Sealody

10-04-2003, 10:08 AM

Since people like pictures.

I know it was listed but pictures says it so much better.

aspit

10-04-2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Sarelin
You missed something... in 115 missions a level 65 can make 55 or so AA's at the same time. So the person with low AA's can get ND1-3, AE Taunt, CS1-3, CA1-3, PE, LR1-5 AND the BP.

I

thats assuming the players are newbies. Every end game warrior has at least 3-400 aa which makes ldon exp 100% useless.

Valeris

10-04-2003, 11:19 AM

going from ntov to ssra to vt to pre elementals to elementals takes a hell of alot longer then 100 hours as you pointed out, so maybe this bp should take 1000 missions to complete?

So Trot, you went from NToV to SSra, to VT, to elementals and all you got was one lousy BP in all that time? Sucks to be you :p

Lets not forget that much of the time spent was also 'wasted' redoing content because the next expansion hadn't come out yet or the encounters were blocked.

It's a stupid comparison to make.

Sarelin

10-05-2003, 05:36 AM

thats assuming the players are newbies. Every end game warrior has at least 3-400 aa which makes ldon exp 100% useless

That's precisely my point. LDoN adventures are not directly aimed at you end game players. Its aimed at the masses. For you there are PoTime-like raids where you can get some similarly good equipment to what you have in PoTime.

Why do you have to whine about an expansion that brings a lot of fun and opportunity to the vast majority of the player base?

Pumilio

10-05-2003, 08:41 AM

Alot of End gamers that I know of that raid alot, actually don't have 300-400aa because they spend more time raiding then xp grinding, but that's just on a.ro server.

Frax

10-05-2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by aspit
thats assuming the players are newbies. Every end game warrior has at least 3-400 aa which makes ldon exp 100% useless.

Thats a pretty off-base comment.. not everyone who raids has a ton of time to grind AAs non-stop when they are not raiding. Some people have jobs, families, commitments, etc that preclude doing much more than showing up for raids (I'm not saying you that you don't have these other things in your life). But, don't assume everyone has these AA just because you do, or that if they don't, they are a 'newbie'.

aspit

10-05-2003, 10:37 PM

most guilds raid at least 4-6 hours a nite and assuming someone raids 5 days a week, which i would consider active, they should get a solid amount of aa from raid experience. For example i get about 1/2 of an aa a nite. This is an average as some nites the exp is ass if we are reflagging, and some it is good like tier 3 time or bertox for flagging. 5 nites a week is 2 1/2 aa a week, say 2 to be conservative. 50 weeks a year, thats easily 100 aa since pop has come out, ect raid exp has been in effect, and assuming 0 exp time. Everyone knows the first 2 weeks of an expansion none does anything but experience. This is 100 raid only aa since pop, that doesnt count the year of luclin. Point is you only need 200ish aa to have everything that is really worth a shit, 300 for everything less stats and saves + garbage. I have yet to see an end game top guild warrior with less than 250ish aa, and if they do its because they arnt very active where in this case they will fall into the category of people needing a tak bp probably.

Gnomb

10-06-2003, 04:46 AM

Solid amount of exp from raid experience ?
Guess that is meant as a joke.
Not to mention that raid experience is rather new but i remember getting like maybe 10 percent of an AA for a complete clearing of Vex Thal.
Raid experience isnt worth it before elementals and there still arent that many in elementals or time.

And LDoN bp is worth it for a lot of elemental warriors.
We cleared VT a dozen times or more and had a single bp drop(which didnt go to MA/SA at the time due DKP holding out for BoW).
About same number of Seru kills, not a single bp.
Exactly one cursed bp (fortunately 3 bloodfrenzies).
I know the magelos of warriors of another elemental guild on Terris and have to see one with 200 AA.
Actually they have one warrior with 90 AA wielding a BoW now.

Kilaara

10-06-2003, 09:07 AM

Hm gaining exp on Raids.

In bad times I ( as one of our MTs ) loose around 5 % exp per week when I have no time to make some exp in groups. We normally raid 7 days / week.

aspit

10-06-2003, 04:32 PM

do you see me anywhere in my post even mention that shithole called luclin? No i am talking killing even mobs+ in mass quantities on pop raids, not some shitty vt clears where you lose more exp than you gain. I die at least 5-10 times a nite and have no problem clearing half an aa or so on a raid + the exp i lost.

QuirtEvans

10-07-2003, 06:04 AM

Note that the patch message says things are changing. Be careful.

----

From SoE:

Augmentation changes for Update - PLEASE READ
As of our update on October 9th, the Solid Coal of Prowess, Blook Ruby of Understanding, and Ooze-Covered Pebble of Perfection will no longer be valid augmentations. If you had these augmentations bonded to an item, you will find them on your cursor. You can take those items to Dible Hedledrap in South Ro and he will restore your adventure points.

IMPORTANT NOTE: You MUST have some open inventory space to hold these items! Also, if you zone with those items on your cursor, they will disappear. So when you log in before the update, make sure you have some free space in your inventory. And when you log in after the update, make certain to get those items off your cursor and into your inventory.

This change is happening due to an issue with some of the new LDoN items. These three augmentations will be replaced with three similar augmentations that fit into slot 7 or 8. Along with that, pre-LDoN items that were given slot type 1 will now have slot type 7.

Essentially, this will mean no change for those with these augmentations in their pre-LDoN items. It will, however, restrict the use of multiples of these augmentations on LDoN items. We apologize for the changes, but these items needed to be more restricted to help maintain game balance.

Alan

Thorbadin

10-07-2003, 01:27 PM

Yeah, I guess I saw that coming.

It's actually "cooler" but people gonna bitch since they are used to the other method already.

Personnaly when I saw a ldon bp with 3 slots of type 1, 2, 3, I assumed 1 for general hp stats, 1 for resists/stats and 1 for effect like vegeance, haste, etc.

When seeing you could add 3 hp augments it felt kinda stupid.

I personnaly just hope that the 3k+ upgrade (if they are in this patch) are not gonna be "obligatory" for time equiped loot for maxed setup cause I really, really don't feel like grinding for days to get those. Just asiming at 5 coal + a few proc is bad enough already.

Thorbadin
Triton

Trot02

10-09-2003, 12:35 PM

Valeris the point is why would you want to go to ntov to elementals, upgrading and destroying old armor when you could just do LDoN and get the "Secnod best tank BP in game " in shorter time?

Gnomb

10-09-2003, 01:28 PM

Thorbadin, until patch the bp had 2 typ 2 and one type 3 slots.
The augment they changed would only go into slot 3 so now they made it a max 140 hp bp.
With the stats/resists and the available effects it is on par with ornate at best now.

Aielman

10-09-2003, 03:13 PM

Every end game warrior has at least 3-400 aa which makes ldon exp 100% useless.

I'm an endgame warrior and I have less than 100. Kind of throws your assumption out the window.

No i am talking killing even mobs+ in mass quantities on pop raids,

We raid 3 nights out of every 5 or 6 (depending on how quickly the other time enabled guild clears time) in Time. We raid the other nights in the Elementals or occasionally, now, in LDoN. We raid 5 to 6 nights a week and I usually end up down 5% real xp for the week and get an average of 2/3 of an AA per week.

Again...incorrect assumption.

peace,
Aielman

wandor

10-09-2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Gnomb
Thorbadin, until patch the bp had 2 typ 2 and one type 3 slots.
The augment they changed would only go into slot 3 so now they made it a max 140 hp bp.
With the stats/resists and the available effects it is on par with ornate at best now. What type augments does it take now? I saw a screenie of an unagumented BP that takes:

slot 1 - Type 1
slot 2 - Type 2
slot 3 - type 3

However, the vendor item list at http://67.113.229.226/skp/eq/ldon/list.cgi still has the BP as listed with 2x Type 2 and 1x Type 3. If this is the case, then you could put on:

slot 1 - Glowing Crystal of Endowments (HP:20, Mana:20, Type 2)
slot 2 - Glowing Saphire of Courage (HP:40, Type 2)
slot 3 - Pristine Limestone of Hatred (VengeanceIV, Type 3)

Resulting in:
Royal Attendant Breastplate of the Sand
AC: +69
Sta: +13 Cha: +11 Wis: +10 Int: +10 HP: +160 Mana: +120
CR: +12 MR: +12 PR: +12
Vengeance IV

Aldarion_Shard

10-09-2003, 05:38 PM

so this change puts LDoN armor squarely in between Ornate and Elemental, exactly where it should be?

Im failing to see the problem. This stuff is obtained by killing Sebilis calibre mobs. I dont see why it ever should have been as good as it was...

Valeris

10-09-2003, 09:55 PM

Valeris the point is why would you want to go to ntov to elementals, upgrading and destroying old armor when you could just do LDoN and get the "Secnod best tank BP in game " in shorter time?

To see and beat the content? The games supposed to be about fun not a freaking job. Case you hadn't noticed guilds that wanted to are skipping most of Velious, pretty much all of Luclin and etc and gearing up via PoP right now. Raiding just for Lewt and rushing through content cause you want the end game NOW is one of the most empty experiences i've had in EQ. Tried it, didn't like it.

Gnomb

10-10-2003, 03:20 AM

Supposedly all already sold armor will be changed back to prepatch status today, only the ones sold after patch will get the type 1,2,3 slots.

Wandor, even assuming the augment you mentioned would fit, i think it is a 1150 point one.
With 2 type 2 slots i can still get 170 hp (as a pure melee the 20 mana are sooo useful) with a 30 hp augment from sro for 760 points and the 40 hp one from nro.
So i would pay 390 points less for a better bp.

Chatja ogre

10-10-2003, 04:22 AM

Aeilman, you are probably not your guilds top warrior, correct?

wandor

10-10-2003, 05:34 AM

Good point Gnomb, I missed that aug, I cut off the search at 900pt or higher. Unfortunately it looks like the BP is indeed 1 type 1, 1 type 2, and 1 type 3 slots so unless they make some decent type 1 augments, the BP will be totally gimped. They should have left the BP alone and just changed the type 1 augments, that would have been good enough.

Moze Emdoyne

10-10-2003, 06:01 AM

I'm an endgame warrior and I have less than 100. Kind of throws your assumption out the window.

/cough

LESS than 100 aa?... So you dont have max defensives? /blink How the heck do you tank ANYTHING at the endgame? And honestly no 'end game' warrior would even blink at this BP... its simply ISNT that good... Sure you can/could stack mad amounts of HP on it... But the AC hit is entirely too high imo. Sure its only a 10-20 ac hit but imho EVERY little bit of extra AC in the endgame is worth it...:D

just my 2 cpers.

ps

er did I just agree with Chatja?!?! /shudder

Gnomb

10-10-2003, 06:08 AM

So what are the alternatives, Moze?

Wait for the ever elusive raex bp?
Go back to seru/VT(VT has currently 3 or 4 guilds in it on Terris, at least 2 or 3 guilds plus 2 or 3 in elementals regularly check for Seru) and pray (we had 0 bp off seru in a dozen or so kills, 1 bp off ahr in a dozen kills as well)?
And according to your own post, ornate isnt worth it, less AC/hp.

Moze Emdoyne

10-10-2003, 07:06 AM

Farwater BP
MAGIC ITEM
Weight: 8.0 Size: MEDIUM
Slot: CHEST
AC: +65 Str: +12 Dex: +10 Sta: +8 Wis: +8 Int: +8 Disease Resist: +15 Poison Resist: +15 HP: +120 Mana: +50
Classes: Warrior Bard Shadowknight Paladin Cleric
Races: All Races
Slot 1: Type 7

Livestone BP
MAGIC ITEM
Weight: 8.0 Size: MEDIUM
Slot: CHEST
AC: +65 Str: +5 Dex: +12 Wis: +10 Int: +10 Agi: +12 Magic Resist: +25 HP: +90 Mana: +90
Classes: Cleric Paladin Shadowknight Bard Warrior
Races: All Races
Slot 1: Type 7

Windessence BP
MAGIC ITEM
Weight: 8.0 Size: MEDIUM
Slot: CHEST
AC: +65 Str: +12 Dex: +5 Wis: +10 Int: +10 Agi: +12 Fire Resist: +25 HP: +90 Mana: +90
Classes: Cleric Paladin Shadowknight Bard Warrior
Races: All Races
Slot 1: Type 7

Kizraks
LORE ITEM MAGIC ITEM NO DROP
Weight: 20.0 Size: LARGE
Slot: CHEST
AC: +63 Str: +10 Dex: +9 Sta: +15 Agi: +6 Disease Resist: +15 Magic Resist: +10 Poison Resist: +15 HP: +115
Classes: Warrior
Races: All Races
Slot 1: Type 7

Barring the fact that elemental tradeskill BP's are maddeningly hard to make... /shrug I still dont see what is so uber about this BP... Same amount of time you spend doing adventures to attain what 4k points to purchase and fully augment the bp you could spend the same amount of time farming parts for tradeskill BP (at only a 4 ac hit)

*my bad on ac hit btw... was thinking more of the BP I have now... and I hadnt had a cup of coffee heh*

At anyrate... basically wanted to say that I honestly dont see how this is the second best BP in the game by any standard... Time invested to get it is insane... The ac is marginal comparatively speaking... so about the only thing that makes it stand out is the fact that you can slam 3 augments on it for 200 or so hp which is a net gain of 3ac and 45hp (now) or about 80-90hp (then)...

just strikes me as a HELLUVA lot of time to spend getting a 3ac 80(if that now) hp gain... If your in Warlords BP your much better off grinding out aa xp or snagging some nice weapon procs... or hell even adding some 10ac augments to your gear than going after this timesink :)

p.s

Snag some 10 ac augments for neck face shoulders waist back for about 2550pts and forget about this BP.

wandor

10-10-2003, 01:13 PM

Barring the fact that elemental tradeskill BP's are maddeningly hard to make... /shrug I still dont see what is so uber about this BP... Same amount of time you spend doing adventures to attain what 4k points to purchase and fully augment the bp you could spend the same amount of time farming parts for tradeskill BP (at only a 4 ac hit) I couldn't disagree more. First of all, for an elem+ warrior there is no reason not to do high risk adventures at 105pts each. Anyone at this level very likely has pretty high play time so doing 2-3 adventures a night would get you a fully augmented LDoN BP in 2-3 weeks tops. If you have very high play time, you could probably get 4k points in a week to 10 days.

Farming enough drops to make any of the elem plate BPs would take easily that long, probably longer due to the ridiculous drop rate of temper ingredients. Not only that, you have to get lucky enough to succeed the combine. The LDoN vendor always has BPs so it's a sure thing.

While I wouldn't rate this the 2nd best BP in the game, and I would probably drop it down the list some on my top 10, it is certainly a considerable upgrade to all of the BPs you have listed and a viable alternative to the warrior who has progress beyond VT/Seru.

Aielman

10-11-2003, 11:42 AM

LESS than 100 aa?... So you dont have max defensives? /blink How the heck do you tank ANYTHING at the endgame?

Well, my magelo is right there for anyone to see, so you can certainly look up which AA's I have and don't have.

As to how I tank anything, well, basically what I do is I stand there, hit defensive, mash all the buttons in the right order that everyone else does, get healed, and then wait for the badguy to fall over. How do you do it?

There is, admittedly, a great disparity between the gear and aa's between our top few tanks and myself (500 more hp, 300 more ac and 400 more aa difference between our top tank and myself), but I tank pretty much all the same mobs they do and am in the tank rotation more than I'm not. They tend to drop just as fast as I do when their defensive runs out on the big mobs as I do, and I tend to stay up about as long as they do when the disc is up as long as healing is good. I've tanked every boss and god from tier 1-5 in Time but for Inny (which we haven't done yet) for at least part of the time as has most every other warrior in our guild. I don't believe we've had more than a handful of times where 1 warrior has tanked start to finish on any of the tier 4/5 gods so I have ample oppurtunity to do my part for my guild.

In any case, your statement was about end game warriors. I am in the end game, regardless of the disparity between myself and other end game warriors. I have the gear and the flags to prove I'm in the endgame, and anyone on the Prexus server is more than welcome to do a /who all to see where I am or inspect me when I'm on to see that my profile isn't just for show.

Therefore, your assumption is incorrect.

Anyone at this level very likely has pretty high play time so doing 2-3 adventures a night would get you a fully augmented LDoN BP in 2-3 weeks tops. If you have very high play time, you could probably get 4k points in a week to 10 days.

Again. This isnt' true for everyone. Pretty much all the time I have to play is tied up in raiding with my guild. I have a demanding job and a family with 2 children, so playing all day even when I'm not at work is not an option. If I had the time to do 4k worth of adventures, I'd have a helluva lot more AA's as well as the points. I've managed, with a move to a new house in the last 2 weeks to interrupt any play, to get a grand total of 5 adventures under my belt. 4k is going to take awhile :-)

I find this type of time constraint to be a similar theme amongst many end game players. We joined raiding guilds because we enjoyed that aspect of the game more than the xp crunch and now, because we raid as often as we do, we have no time to do much else.

peace,
Aielman

aspit

10-11-2003, 11:55 AM

lol with 100 aa how the fuck do you even keep aggro? Offensive aas are huge for helping to hold aggro. In fact if you were in my guild i wouldnt even let you off tank a rathe councilman with your aa.

Thorbadin

10-11-2003, 12:36 PM

Bullshit imo.

What make the most difference in that expantion is by far going from the somewhat 1500 ac range to the 2100 ac range most have right now.

Even thought having the minimum aas is nice, it's by no mean a requirement for aggro or for tanking for that matter. Of course in the end game you want to maximise all your chances, but can't off tank a rathe councilman? Laugh.

It's not like warrior should be tanking those either? That's why those fucking hybrids are for. Warrior suck remember?

Thorbadin
Triton

Aielman

10-11-2003, 01:10 PM

lol with 100 aa how the fuck do you even keep aggro?

Well, I suppose I could do the predictable "well I'm just that fucking good" type statement, but that wouldn't serve much purpose. I hold it about as well as all the other tanks...which is to say just fine unless someone overnukes or does something over the top to take it from me.

In fact if you were in my guild i wouldnt even let you off tank a rathe councilman with your aa.

Well then I guess I'm fortunate I'm not in your guild or one like yours. But then again, I never was much for elitists. I had and have no trouble tanking either the mezzable or unmezzable councilmen...nor any of the earth minis leading up to it, all of whom I've tanked at one time or another. We do tend to use Pallies to hold the unmezzable once a tank takes them down to 6% on the unmezzables, but it's fallen on the tanks, inclucing myself, when one goes down or not enough are available.

peace,
Aielman

PS...Btw...I'm not saying that I don't think the additional AA's would be of great value...I do. But I find bombastic statements like "all end game warriors will have insert_item_here" to be about as accurate and useful as the pussnuts that say that "anyone over insert_higher_level_here will have better" on Allakhazam. It also smacks of elitistism which I have little patience for, and is one of the prinicple reasons why the majority of people on my server think that Steel Warrior is a waste of space (not a view I share, but one that exists none-the-less).

Madronedorf

10-11-2003, 01:13 PM

i think on our first xeg win one of the warriors who tanked him for half the fight had like 80 aa hah

wandor

10-11-2003, 02:15 PM

Again. This isnt' true for everyone. Pretty much all the time I have to play is tied up in raiding with my guild. I have a demanding job and a family with 2 children, so playing all day even when I'm not at work is not an option. If I had the time to do 4k worth of adventures, I'd have a helluva lot more AA's as well as the points. I've managed, with a move to a new house in the last 2 weeks to interrupt any play, to get a grand total of 5 adventures under my belt. 4k is going to take awhile :-) Join the club, that's why I don't have 4k points. However, that is why I said LIKELY to have high play time. You are much more likely to find someone who plays 10-12 hours a day in an uber guild, not a family or casual guild. I would imagine that most of the people at the top of the leader board are in VT+ raid guilds, I know that's the way it is on my server.

Moze Emdoyne

10-11-2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by wandor
Join the club, that's why I don't have 4k points. However, that is why I said LIKELY to have high play time. You are much more likely to find someone who plays 10-12 hours a day in an uber guild, not a family or casual guild. I would imagine that most of the people at the top of the leader board are in VT+ raid guilds, I know that's the way it is on my server.

Which is much of the reason I said that getting 5 ac10 augments from BB/Mistmoore is basically a better route to go... For the BP your looking at 4k+ hitpoint... 5 ac10 augments for is 2550... Its a better return on your points and time than going after this BP.

BP: 4k pts and change for a potential gain of 3-10ac and MAYBE 80 hps... and that kind of a gain in hitpoints at the endgame isnt really THAT worth it unless you have GODLY ac (2k+ imo)

5xac10 augments: 2550 pts... 50 RAW ac gained. Your going to see a much better improvement here than going for the BP. Plus you'll have around 2k in extra points (o hi anger3 augments or even HP augments on other pieces of armor)...

Gnomb

10-13-2003, 03:34 AM

Currently i have 2 hp augments on the bp, and for the last slot i plan the ac 10 augment from bb.
All in all not a bad deal with AC 79 and 170 hp.

Fitemore

10-13-2003, 04:27 AM

The thing about getting the BP over individual augments is this: The BP will be a solid one until Time, basically. And then, you still have to get a mold. If you upgrade individual pieces with 10ac, they still may be replacable. If you look at the other items that you may be getting in the near future and none compare, then sure, upgrade away. Otherwise, you're better off with an upgrade that will last you for a long time.

wandor

10-13-2003, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by Fitemore
The thing about getting the BP over individual augments is this: The BP will be a solid one until Time, basically. And then, you still have to get a mold. If you upgrade individual pieces with 10ac, they still may be replacable. If you look at the other items that you may be getting in the near future and none compare, then sure, upgrade away. Otherwise, you're better off with an upgrade that will last you for a long time. Exactly what I was thinking. You can get all the 10ac augments in the world, unless the item lasts you until Time, then the augment will go to waste when you upgrade.

zito

10-13-2003, 02:57 PM

Even with the augment changes, getting this BP with 69 AC, 140 HP, plus whatever type 1 and 3 augment you can throw on it *saves maybe, possibly Vengeance*, still leave this as one of the top BP's in game, and certainly the easiest obtained for the level. Using Allakhazam's, I only found 4 BP's that I thought were preferable.. Raex's, Chestguard of Enchanted Marble, Heavy Yttrium, and Great Shadow Platemail. I'm not sure if maybe allakhazam's is outdated, or missing some other PoP upper-end pieces ? But in any case, it's still a pretty sweet BP, and the best that I'll ever see without leaving my small, non-raiding guild.

*edit*... Constricting Cuirass from PoH also looks pretty nice, dropping the LDoN bp down to 6th.. still hemming and hawing over whether I prefer the crafted Farwater bp.

Krorghar

10-27-2003, 07:06 AM

I also got the BP (prenerfed version) with 2x slot 2 and one slot 3.
In the slot 3 i have put the +8PCT Dodge augment to give it a try,
Results were above all my best wishes.

In theory its 8PCT of 190, assuming u got dodge maxed, that gives u a skill of 190 + 15 =205 in dodge. Dont know if there is any kind of "boost" when u reach the 200s but for me theres an "after" and a "before" of that aug. I seem to being hitted noticeably less times than before, effect is so noticeable than many times I have asked if i got the agro.
When I thought what the hell put in that slot 3 We discarted RegenV (not really usefull in a fight) and VengeanceIV (was an option but my ATK was good enough). So only two candidates where left, 30hp ot dodge8pct. I though than even if that extra percentage on dodging only saves u from one or two hits in a fight would have done his job better than only 30HP more. So I decided :)

180HP still rocks on the BP and that extra 8PCT in dodging helps a lot costs 760 in miraguls what is a decent price.

theres still a slot 2 free on my BP ... candidates are 10ac or the other 40HP think will go for the HP but having a BP with 79ac really makes me keep thinking about it... advices welcome :)

Duchess Inferna

10-27-2003, 08:30 AM

That 10 ac augment is for neck, shoulders, face, back, neck and waist slots

Krorghar

10-27-2003, 11:30 AM

TY then only one option left ;)

Naubi Fionn

10-28-2003, 07:54 PM

The HP dropped augments (12 and 15hp ones) are now type 7. So you can't put those in the LDoN bp either.

Telen

10-31-2003, 11:14 AM

I like the idea that a single group, with enough time and effort, can get comparable equipment to what raid forces can get. I realize most people like raiding, but there's a large contingent of players who just like to play with their friends and don't like large scale raids. I personally have done all the high level raiding I ever want to do, at least that's how I feel now, it's in my opinion god awful boring. I'm much rather to LDoN in a group with my friends.

landrain

10-31-2003, 11:23 AM

Actually, with LDON, you can easilly surpass most raiding players.

That is where people have a problem. In a raiding guild, you expect to get a drop say every 1-2 weeks, yet with LDoN you can get a top of the line augment every 28 missions on Normal or 14 on hard. this is what less than a week easilly? Not to mention that the players who are in heavy raiding guilds, on average dont have the time to do adventures to augment their gear. Of course there are always exceptions, and the people with no life, no work etc..

Gront

11-04-2003, 07:00 AM

I'm a level 65 warrior, semi-casual player, in a non-raiding guild. 20 AAs (please don't laugh), 7000/1400 HP/AC. I can competently tank anything in Velious with a decent CHeal chain, and could probably do well against many of the lower-level Luclin mobs (but haven't tried).

I've purchased the LDoN Tak BP and legs, and will probably buy the Tal arms sometime soon (as the effect on the Ornate arms does not interest me).

Have you ever looked at the non-visible armor slot (neck, face, waist, shoulder, back) items available to a non-raiding warrior? They suck. Any NToV-capable guild will have +100 HP items available for each of those slots; any non-raiding guild, the best you can possibly get is around +85 HP, and that'll cost you an arm and a leg in plat if you can even find them for sale.

I'd love to be able to put +10 AC augs on all of my non-visible armor slots. But at 1400 AC, I'm already solidly at the AC soft cap for Velious, and as I said, nearly at if not at the AC soft cap for Luclin. And what would I put that +10 AC on? My Heavy Rubicite Girdle? My Forged Shoulderpads? Perhaps my Death Mask of the Elysians (yes, I know it should be an Amygdalan; my plat is currently tied up in an elemental bow for my ranged slot)?

I'm far better off buying equipment that I will never realistically need to upgrade, than augmenting things which will evaporate the moment I join even a casual raiding guild. At least with the LDoN Tak armors, I will eventually have near-Elemental-quality armor in my visible armor slots. And the focus is on hit points, where I need the most help.

I play about three hours a day, about four days a week. On an average day, that means I get two LDoN missions in (counting setup time, finding a good mission, replacing people who have to leave between missions, etc.). Some days only one, some days three; average about two. That means I can afford a new piece of LDoN armor every month; a fully augmented piece every couple of months. No, it's not as efficient as if I could play six hours a day, six days a week and join a raiding guild. But it's significantly better than the situation before LDoN, where the best I could ever hope for was full Ornate.

*shrug* I'm glad LDoN exists. It's fun to play, it highlights competence and skill, and it gives me a chance to get respectable equipment (including decent aggro-holding capability).

Thanks,

Gront
Kheysa Meatus
Ayonae Ro

Bloodslake

11-12-2003, 10:18 AM

I am in a similar position to Gront.

Very well put Gront.

I find all the rants/freak outs about "OMG a person not putting in 7 days a week 4-6 hours a night to raid can still get uber armor" to be laughable. Probably bugs you because you are jealous there is another viable path that doesn't require your obsession of a game.

I find LDoN to be a wonderful way to close the gap as previously stated. I think it improves gameplay for the majority of the people who do play EQ.

Oh yea, and, that majority pays the same amount you do, by the way, to play this game.

People, this is a game. Have fun.

Stop whining and play.

I also think it is interesting everyone obsesses about breastplates.

Fitemore

11-12-2003, 10:44 AM

Guys, this is a forum for EP+ issues. Casual players talking about casual issues should go somewhere else. Most people in the EPs will be playing a LOT more than 12 hours a week, and we generally feel that yes, we should be rewarded for this time investment by getting stuff that casual players do not have access to. That's how it's been always, until LDoN. Telling us to stop whining in OUR forum isn't exactly a polite thing to do.

Gront

12-06-2003, 05:12 AM

You're quite correct. I saw the "high-level warriors only" part of the description, and missed the "elemental+ only" part.

Guess I'm not high-level enough...:-)

Thanks,

Gront.

Callon

12-10-2003, 10:59 AM

That's how it's been always, until LDoN. Telling us to stop whining in OUR forum isn't exactly a polite thing to do.

Raiders still DO get much better stuff than anyone else. Gront has a point, even if you are too elitist to see it. And yes, this forum is for elemental+ discussions, but you're discussing augmenting items from adventure points, which obviously don't require high end raids. You're also complaining about all the "masses" who can get gear of a quality some of you think only you should be able to get. You don't expect people to respond to that?

Apparently you'd prefer to "discuss" the issue with a bunch of yesmen, people who all see it exactly the same way you do. Well that's productive!

Also some of the estimates posted here for how fast this gear can be obtained are ridiculous for most who would be trying to get it. Casual players don't often have ready made groups to rip thru LDoN adventures in 40 minutes and then do another and another. They spend time looking for a group. They wait for said group to arrive because they're are always some slowpokes. They have multiple group members leave after one adventure and have to find more. They leave themselves because they have other things to do. They sometimes take 60-90 minutes plus to do an adventure depending on their group makeup. Yet you sit here and talk about augmented items that cost 4-5k adventure points to make. Okay, so after months a casual player might finally get ONE of these items. Oh boy. If you see someone running around in a full augmented set of this stuff after a few months, you are NOT talking about casual players. They may not be in a top end raid guild like you, but clearly they still play a hell of a lot, just in a different style than you do. A 12 hour a week player is not going to be getting a lot of this stuff. Even compared to the hardcore LDoNer though, you're going to have better gear overall if you put in the kind of time they did.

For some of the same reasons above, the following statement is garbage --
Actually, with LDON, you can easilly surpass most raiding players. That is where people have a problem. In a raiding guild, you expect to get a drop say every 1-2 weeks, yet with LDoN you can get a top of the line augment every 28 missions on Normal or 14 on hard. this is what less than a week easilly?

Easily? One, i'd argue your initial statement. Any raider that puts in the sheer time it would take most people to get all this great LDoN gear you're talking about could top it gearwise plus having zone access to better and better gear as they progress. And in what fantasy land are you seeing 28 successful missions a week? That's 4 a day. The "casual player" doesn't play every day to begin with. When he/she does play, they often do 1 or 2 adventures. They're probably not doing LDoN every single time they play either because they're helping friends with assorted crap. 28 missions a week is a very hardcore player, especially if they don't have the uber raid gear that would make things so much faster and more trivial. If they do already have the raid gear, then they're not going to bother with this stuff much anyway.

Some of you are very out of touch with the game that most players, the casual players, are playing. Understandable. We're all ignorant about some things. Some apparently are not aware of that ignorance though. When a couple truly casual players do try to explain it to you, you come back with... "this is our uber forum. Leave us alone. Go back to casual land, noob". Well excuse me, but you're sitting here complaining that casual guy should have his gear nerfed. Don't expect that to be ignored.

Kellaen

12-10-2003, 11:35 AM

EQ is about time investment, raiding usually has the best returns for that investment. LDoN offers both the raider and non raider who put in the time pathways to enhance their character. If you are unable to put in the time investment, for whatever reason, then obviously you're not going to get near either of the two above player types.

Raiders get type 7 hp augs, type 7 ac augs, anger procs. Non raiders usually get type 2 hp augs, type 2 ac augs, type 3 effect augs, anger procs but both sides can mix and match with ldon armor and ldon augs for existing equipment. I don't see anything wrong with that setup, in fact it's never been better for the non raider then it is today in terms of character potential.

Yes the quality of tak armor isn't as high as elemental armor, nor should it be. While it does requie a high time investment you cannot compare grinding out missions with 5 other people over and over to a high end raiding environment, ever. This is where people usually get caught up in the arguements of things, but the day this changes there is 0 point in raiding really.

Krassus

12-10-2003, 11:59 AM

Ldon is nice !! leave it alone !!! I think its good non raiders can get semi decent gear. Raiding people don’t need to worry their wont ever be a VDD, BoW, DboTWL or any high end item in Ldon. It gives the smaller people a chance to get equipped and helps us raiding people upgrade our loot. I personally cannot stand to do Ldon missions other than farming hards for loot. It makes me want to milk baby goats sitting endlessly killing undead frogs.

Goats and Donkeys are friends to all

Callon

12-10-2003, 02:35 PM

Yes the quality of tak armor isn't as high as elemental armor, nor should it be. While it does requie a high time investment you cannot compare grinding out missions with 5 other people over and over to a high end raiding environment, ever.

so hopefully no one misunderstands my last post, just wanted to add that i'd certainly agree with this statement. That's also the way it's set up now. The totally obsessed LDoN raider who plays constantly but isn't in a high end guild (if such a player exists) is not going to be as well equipped as a high end raider who puts in anyways near that kind of time. And the casual LDoN player isn't going to be an issue compared to raiders at all because this player will never have a set of that high end, fully augmented LDoN armor you're talking about anyway.

One comment from another poster I really didn't get was the complaint that LDoN allows people to skip steps in the velious-luclin-pop progression. So what? Why should everyone be forced to follow one particular progression? For one thing, Velious isn't bad, but Luclin progression sucks. The VT quest has always sucked. It still sucks. Maybe it always will suck. Almost everyone I've heard from who did the key quest complained about how horribly boring it was. Countless players have posted on numerous message boards about how it's no fun. Yet once you've done it, for some of you it becomes like a fraternity hazing. It sucked when it was you, but damn it, now that you've done it, everyone else should have to do it, too! Except it's worse than a frat hazing because it takes a lot longer. Nevermind trying to get the spawn in ssra. I don't know about others, but to this day on my server that stuff is all highly contested. There are at least 3 fairly large guilds all working separately toward their VT keys right now during American primetime hours. Fun. :p

I started reading this thread because there was good information about the best LDoN combos of armor and augs. Sorry I'm contributing to its derailment. Maybe we can get back to that topic.

Madronedorf

12-10-2003, 11:27 PM

X Packs have alwas allowed people to acceleration or skip content heh

Tharak

12-11-2003, 02:47 PM

I usually wouldn;t be posting here, but seems like some people need a reality check.

I am not in uber raiding guild (by choice), and yes i do grind the living crap outta LDoN. I have the BP in question, and yes eventually it will be augmented quite well.

Does this mean I am stealing something from the raiders who are grinding it out in VT etc. When comparing my BP to others it sits at about the level of an ornate BP (or there-abouts). It's a fairly significant acomplishment, but it does not put you (specifically me) on par with the uber raiding warriors. If we are going to complain about that (the LDoN armor) then complain about the uber stuff you can buy in the bazaar too.

There is (and always will be) a major difference between a warrior who is not into uber raiding and those who are. I'll never touch a vanzir etc; but that doesn't mean all the gear I have access to should suck. I should have access to gear that is better than what ebay meatheads can buy in the bazaar, if I am grinding my gear out in LDoN. I still earned my BP, which is more than a punk who bought RZ armor from all the PP he got from mysupersales.com.

Please return this thread to the original intent though . . . what augments are all the uber's placing in this BP?