View Full Version : Melee "rebalancing"
09-16-2003, 11:02 PM
Well it seem that there are indeed dmg augment that you can get in raid that work on type 8.
You can see a add 3 dmg augment on allakhazam : http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=23173
This one is 1-hander only (piercing too).
Someone also told me a 10 (ten) dmg augment that work on 2-hander was linked today too if you havent seen it.
Well I'm not sure what kinda of crap caster are getting, but I saw some violent dot and some new stuff.
It seem to be that the gap will get closer with melee getting these mods assuming they are not super rare.
What you guys think?
Say hi to a 70/38 vanazir or 23/20 edge of eternity.
09-17-2003, 12:01 AM
These seem nice, but honestly did casters have to pour hours of time into something to get their spells or the power they have today. Mostly no.....
I think these are great but was hoping for an honest balancing as well and less exp grind for points and more fixing of whats already broke.
09-17-2003, 12:13 AM
I may be wrong, but that was up there before LDoN went live. Chances are it's not the same now, straight damage mods all seem to be delay limited now.
And frankly I hope casters get jack shit(except ench I guess).
09-17-2003, 01:18 PM
Well caster already get new spells they have to buy on vendor.
We are talking about multiple K for all the spells. That include new utility ldon crap and also include very violent dot/dd and probably other stuff.
The only think that a melee can do to improve the dmg without raid is to put another proc on it with a dd.
The remaning upgrades will be stats/hp/cha/ac but we share that with casters.
The good stats upgrade will come from raid and will be available to melee and caster obviously.
The dmg mod give at this point an advantage toward melee in term of dps upgrade I think, but who knows, I'm sure in the next week I will see a 35% fire dmg focus or a 35% dot focus augment.
09-17-2003, 04:00 PM
So what do casters actually get in the expantion that is buyable on merchants? Basically stuff that could be compared to the proc augment we get from merchant too. Hybrids get some spells too.
All casters get some utilty to remove/sense/detect traps in dungeon depending on their type, the highest one cost 60 pts each.
Spell casters also get some spells to try to fix "holes" in their spell line at lower lvl. Like a shitty aego for paladins, a lower lvl focus song for bards, some other dots/remove curse for priests, etc.
Nature lovers get a sow type spell that work indoor.
The new defensive spells come in many variant. You have the guard/vie line that work by adding shielding to a target up to a maximum number of dmg, somewhat like a rune.
You have the equivalent for spell dmg that caster get.
You also have a mini harmshield (http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=4081&source=Live) that absord a certain number of this it seem. This only work on pet I noticed, but I guess its a good survivability spell for pet. Was thinking that it was way too strong for player too.
So except for the Bullwark of Vie defensive line on extremly rape boss, nothing too good here except a few gimmicks.
Now the good spells :
-Rangers get http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=4107&source=Live
Basically a 65atk buff that doesn't stack with avatar but work indoor. Turn into a wolf, add infra/see invis and 40% speed increase. It's an upgrade to wolf form, but more important for ldon it work indoor.
-Necros get Horror (http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=4098&source=Live)
Curse dot for 430 per tick for 5 ticks so it's extremly fast. With 30% focus it's up to 559 per tick (nearly 100dps), up to total 2795 for 470 mana plus all the save for focus/aas.
Note on dots and ldon, well with super fast fight at normal, and the fact that mezzing is most of the tme a waste of time, dot can be used on multiple mobs and probably can do mega dmg total.
By comparaison blood of thule is of 335 base for 7 ticks for 500 mana. So the new dot is a bit less dmg for overall duration but faster and similar mana. With fast fight it's probably much better too.
-Clerics get the somewhat good on raid bullwark of vie and a group version of spell haste.
-Bards get call of muse : http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=4112&source=Live
Bards are very complicated to analyze correctly but let me try anyway : It's singing, I have no idea how much it can be augmented but the basic stats are 15% dmg focus on detrimental and 30% v3 haste (overhaste). It's the same stats then rizlona's call of flame (http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=3362&source=Live) But without the instant dmg limit, so it mean that it will work on dots. This is actually pretty good, meaning that when a bard group with doters he can increase their dmg by up to 15% like they can now with DD and melee with overhaste.
-Shadow Knight seem to be getting a self only 8/tick dot that increase their attack by 50 (http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=4063&source=Live). Doesn't stack with the pred line, but usefull without a ranger in group I guess. They get a new lvl 49 dd, not sure if it's good at high lvl or no.
-Enchanter get the % spell rune and a 8 sec ae stun that probably doesn't work on anything.
-Mage get Burning Sand (http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=4110&source=Live) a 950 dd for 350 mana. This look like a smaller, faster casting, lower lvl and overall shitier version of Sun Vortex, the lvl 65 1550 fire dd they already have. Maybe I'm missing something.
They also get a 1050 fire pb ae dd at lvl 60.
-Wizards get Ice Meteor (http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=4066&source=Live). 2100 cold (-10) dd for 510 mana. It's near the efficienty of Strike of Solusek 4.1 vs 4.2 but basically wizard didn't have a high lvl ice nuke over Ancient Destruction of Ice. They also have a self buff 30% cold focus it seem, so a wizard unable to get a 30% magic/fire focus can use his self buff + Ice Meteor for efficenty probably above strike of solusek or Agnarr's Thunder.
-Pally gets aego gratz them.
-Shaman get Bane (http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=4095&source=Live) a slightly inferior Dot to Horror which is already pretty good. 420 base per tick for 5 ticks. Only major diff is they don't have the -30 magic adjustement. They also don't get fd and will get summoned and killed the second they mem the spell, but still it's a pretty good upgrade. To compare their best dot before that is Blood of Saryn, 320 per tick for 7 ticks and 535 mana (bit higher total but slower). So it's basically the same pattern that necro have with their new dot. Except that 24 curses counters should be mega aggro unless I'm mistaken.
-Druids, following the same pattern for dots get a new 5 tick dot called http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=4106&source=Live. Less mana, less dmg, 8 cursed counter and -30 fire check. For druids it's a somewhat different pattern cause they don't seem to have an uber dot already, their best is Swarming death, a 240/tick for 6 ticks 350 mana dot that check magic(-100). The new one is more easily resisted but will dish out more total dmg for about the same mana in 5 tick instead of 6.
That's about it for the good bought spell. So basically hybrids get small take a cookie type spells. All the dot wielder get a powerfull 5 ticks dot that work very well in fast pace group present in ldon (at least at normal difficulty) and bard get a new song that work with dot.
Wizards get a hole patched on their ice nukes and I guess the same thing could be said for mage. All the pet wielder also get the mini pet harmshield that will help them surive the big ass AE on stuff like quarm where pet simply die instantly, a pretty good thing for them, especially bst that rely on them alot for damage.
All melee get add proc! But all in all, casters don't really get any dps upgrade via their spells, at best they get some utilities and some more choices except for dot, but dot casters were already clearly at a disadvantage in xp groups compare to dd casters already so I guess it put them more in balance with each others.
Anyway, that was long, feel free to correct me if I made a mistake, not an expert in all the classes, but I had time to kill so I did some lucy research.
09-17-2003, 04:49 PM
Adding aggro procs is *huge* and then some for us warriors.
09-17-2003, 06:17 PM
Er...3 of the 7 pure casting classes got huge DoT buffs, and Wizards and Mages had resist holds patched...how aren't at least the DoTs significant damage upgrades?
09-17-2003, 07:20 PM
It's a nice upgrade for dot caster for sure.
But unless you are not losing mana casting spell like saryn's kiss, the new dot is less efficient overrall assuming the dots go fully.
The main advantage is te 5 tick versus 7 tich, which make the new dots better for xp groups and fast pace kill group.
09-17-2003, 11:51 PM
More anger mods to do what other classes can already do? thats not good its a joke.
EB was and is a bad fix...
Anger augments is a continuation of that trend...
I would prefer some nice War only damage mitigation items, honestly I dont like where aggro is but I can deal with it. I would rather get some more seperation on Mitigation at this point.
09-18-2003, 12:05 AM
We wont get any mitigiation...
1) Because they fear for the so called "game balance"
2) Because we are SoE most hated & left over class
3) Becase the loot distribution is totally messed up
Getting 1ac 10hp over the same slot hybrid item is the best we can hope for.
09-18-2003, 01:52 PM
Y'all are forgetting the new damage focii that went in.
That's a pretty big benefit.
09-19-2003, 02:24 PM
The wizard self focus only works with ice spells of level 60, so it won't work with Ice Meteor.
The new focus are 5% higher than the Time equivalents, so it does not seem as big a jump to me unless you've a caster that doesn't have a damage focus, but that seems unlikely for a Times+ guild.
09-19-2003, 05:00 PM
Yes, and these augs don't require membership in an elemental/time guild to get. Therefore, they have MUCH wider availability. The elemental/time level is not the ONLY level in the game, you know. =)
Secondly, I wasn't just referring to just those, I was referring to all the new levels of focus items as well, that make them far easier to get than ever before.
09-20-2003, 05:27 AM
i would love a focus that allows me to do xx% more dammage depending on mage summoned or real item. mages can allready summon armor stick silly eqname fury 1-4 on the bracer or something. and add tallons fury 1-4 on odball iems. of corse they would have to make melees able to use focus effects. we should be able to anyway.
09-20-2003, 06:46 PM
because i didnt write this....
09-20-2003, 10:27 PM
Maybe Plane of Time isnt the only place in town, but by their own admission its still supposed to be the place in town for the best items.
09-21-2003, 02:02 AM
The DMG augment, Anger III, and Force of Yekesha are good for all Warriors at all levels. I believe their existance will change the focus of many Warriors to LDoN and augmentation.
It does put a good (by the previous standard) aggro weapon within reach of those willing to put in the needed 200-500 hours and unable (for a variety of reasons) to obtain a BoW in a 3 hour guild raid.
09-25-2003, 03:22 PM
Burning sand is a big update for mage's, It is a fast nuke that is realtively low mana, My mage is drooling over picking it up as something on the burn a gater down.
Btw Gratz paladins on better hp/ac buff's so they can solo better yeah!
So um why do we need cleric's now? oh yeah Cheal my bad..
well gotta say Cleric's and warrior's got hammered this expansion.
Yours in war,
Color Cloud is actually a very nice spell, first ae stun that works on mobs up to level 65. Most usefull when you want to kill high level mobs with ae spells (think coirnav, parts of poe etc)
Shadowknights get an undead nuke (Scythe of Innoruk) that's quite ok, 880 dmg for 240 mana with 1 sec casting time. Not a huge upgrade from excisting nukes considering the ones they have without the undead restriction, but worth getting at least.
While the Paladin Aegolism (Guidance) spell sounds good, they reduced it's duration from 2,5hs to 1h. Heroism + Symbol is more hp, for less mana and lasts longer.
(edit: casting time on SoI was wrong)
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