Warrior ornate armor - is it worth the money?

[GSW]

Well, i added up the total stamina and hp from the ornate warrior set. With the helm, vambraces, 2 bracers, boots, gloves, breastplate, and greaves you will get 54 stamina, 520 hp, and some nice effects. 3 hp regen, about 20 atk, shield of the arcane, 30% spell haste, ultravision/see invis, and 30 sta buff. Seems pretty nice...of course the entire set will cost...well, 40k for helm, vambraces, bracers(2), boots, and gloves adds up to 240k, add 100k for greaves and 160k for breastplate to that and you get 500k.

Now let's take...fierce heraldic helm, vambraces, 2 bracers, boots, breastplate, and greaves, and kylog darmail gauntlets. That will cost you...4k for helm, arms, bracers(2), boots, 7k for gauntlets, 10k each for bp and greaves. Adds up to 47k. That setup gives you 25 stamina and 495 hp, and less AC then the ornate set. Now let's look at the procs on ornate. 3 hp regen and 20 atk don't help *that* much, 30 clicky haste gets overwritten by chanty/shammy haste, and eyepatch of plunder has 20% clicky haste anyway. Ultravision/see invis helps...but there's other items with that. 30 sta buff gets overwritten by shammy sta buff, and with a shammy you'll probably have max sta anyway(if you have 500k to spend on ornate you probably have high enough sta to get it maxed with shammy buff), which makes the more sta on ornate pointless. I'm not sure what shield of the arcane stacks with.

So sure, ornate armor has some effects that can be useful in various situations, but it's really not that great. For 500k you could get yourself a BoC and still have 100k left, which you could spend for bloodmetal earrings or some other nice item. So unless you already have very good items in other slots and lots of money, there's no need to rush to buy ornate.

Thoughts, comments, flames? :rolleyes:

[Steenky]

Being agnostic makes the ornate route really the only choice other than SS/Kael. Also, give it time and the ornate stuff will drop in price just like everything else in this game.

[Superchum]

I don't know what you're talking about with those prices.

Ornate armor costs 500 plat per piece. Maybe a little more if you want to just buy the ethereal sheets.

:P

Go camp the stuff, it's not THAT rare ... well not that rare anymore.

[GSW]

Good point, Steenky, got those of us who are agnostic it's definetely a good idea. But for those of us who worship Tribunal, Rallos Zek, or Cazic Thule, there's very good armor for us that's much cheaper then ornate. And yes, it will drop in price, which makes it even more pointless to buy it now.

Wubao...remind me to smack ya when i get on! :D
Well, yeah, it's not that rare...after a few months of non stop camping names in BoT and Tactics it's possible to get a full suit, and a mini raid can take out a boss that drops breastplate. But you'd need some cheated dice for that :P. But heh, i'd probably sell any ornate i get(as long as it's greed rolled, if i get it by NBG i'd have to use it of course)

[Keane Abrams]

I think each piece needs to be examined on a case by case basis. In regards to Fierce, Ornate, and even Skyshrine armor there are some pieces from each that are simply better. You should never buy a complete set of anything. Examine each piece and buy based on what your best upgrade will be.

[Promethis]

If nothing else, get ornate gaunts. Click haste is the win.

[Haass]

Well, ornate for the most part is better than Fierce, but it has some problems with that.

Arms and helm are clearly better...there's no reason not to own those. Breastplate is an obvious upgrade, and so are legs...altho legs are only a few HP more than Fierce, so definitely not worth buying, only really worth it to camp those.

Bracers and Boots won't help me much because my stamina is capped. When I finally get around to planar power, Boots and bracers will be a HP upgrade, but like greaves, not enough to justify buying.

And gaunts, well, get SS. There's not many upgrades from SS.

[gulug]

dont forget resists. from the few ornate pieces i have they seem to have decent resists too.

[Sarelin]

Helm is a no go as far as I can see, if you yourself are good enough to tank in BoT then you should likely be in a guild capable of killing AoW.

Arms are a nice little upgrade from SS (FH being worse).

Gloves are nice when you don't have haste in the group, but inferior to SS most times when you have maxed stamina.

Legs are pretty sweet but damned expensive for the relatively small upgrade from FH. If I won a pair I'd use 'em but I wouldn't buy them.

BP, no thanks... Eradication is better imho and some swear by the Vindi BP. And since we just got into VT if I wanted an upgrade, Great Shadow Platemail please.

Bracers I dunno, I got 2 VT bracers already so never looked at them.

Boots are again a small upgrade from FH. I'd win and wear, not buy.


All in all I am somewhat disappointed with our Ornate Armor. I was hoping it would be a good stopgap between SS/FH and Elemental so I could get ears/ace/shoulders etc from VT (and yeah I still plan to) but I run a 65 Druid as well as my warrior and I think I'll be spending all my money/trading any drops to get him Ornate armor. MP4 boots, FT2 bracers, Regen click BP, Root Click Legs, IH4 arms... all have a much bigger impact on the druid than the warrior ornate does on me.

[Haass]

Helm is a no go as far as I can see, if you yourself are good enough to tank in BoT then you should likely be in a guild capable of killing AoW.

I'm running 300-400hp behind you, and i'm not in an AoW guild, nor have i ever been. Not everyone wants to be in a 50+ member raiding guild which is basically a 2nd job. I think I can probably handle BoT quite nicely.

But thanks for the compliment.

[Sulvar]

I agree that you have to look at the pieces in a case by case basis.

Breastplate: The breastplate owns, more hps and than vindi or Statue BP and far more AC than either of them also. The shield of the arcane effect is also nice I use it a lot when I am grouped without a shaman

Legs: The legs also own, there just aren't too many good legs available for warriors. Again the AC is impressive the hps are great and the effect is decent. I am not sure what other legs you would use over these, that are even close to as easy to get. Maybe seru legs, but they only have 25 AC.

Helm: Well the helm is one of the weaker items. +100 hp helms are just so common, RZ helm is easy to get so is the tormax helm and the truesight effect isnt that good IMO

Bracers: The bracers are middle of the road. There are definately better bracers out there, but the vengence 2 is nice.

Arms: The arms are pretty good, arms are a weak spot for warriors, there just are a lack of really good arm items to choose from.

Boots: Boots are pretty good also. Again the vengence is nice. Boots of the storm are pretty easy to get so I guess it depends on what you already have in this slot.

Gloves: The gloves are the weakest piece IMO. I think its rare to never that I xp without a haste casting class. Also the Skyshrine gloves are just so good that you wont be replacing them soon.


Anyway if I were to rank the pieces I would rank them as follows

1) Legs
2) BP
3) Arms / Bracer / Boots
4) Helm
5) Gloves

[Steenky]

Ornate armor costs 500 plat per piece.

I rolled up a level 1 on Povar just to check, and the cheapest Ornate I saw was 45k. The Ornate Rune Blade was 500pp though if that is what you meant.

[Eoden]

Ornate costs 500plat per piece if you camp it and quest it, I dont think bazaar prices were being discussed there.

[Superchum]

"I rolled up a level 1 on Povar just to check, and the cheapest Ornate I saw was 45k. The Ornate Rune Blade was 500pp though if that is what you meant."

Bors Warhammer charges you 500 plat per insignia when you talk to him.

Everything else, technically, can be had for free.

[Haass]

Legs: The legs also own, there just aren't too many good legs available for warriors. Again the AC is impressive the hps are great and the effect is decent. I am not sure what other legs you would use over these, that are even close to as easy to get. Maybe seru legs, but they only have 25 AC.

This strikes me as odd Sulvar, why do you think the legs own, especially since you worship Rallos?

AC 40, 5 sta 80hp greaves for less than 10k these days, or Ornate, which are quite the purchase. I think i've seen one set of Ornate greaves for sale on CT, and given the price of them, if I were ever to loot them, i'd probably sell them because they're just not that big of an upgrade over Fierce. Is it purely because you're on a PvP server and you prefer no drop items? I can't see any reason 5ac and 10hp is worth the upwards of 80k they're priced at these days.

[Steenky]

Ahh, I've never made a piece so your statement of 500pp had me a tad skeptical ;)

[Koralak]

You also have to ask yourself what kind of position you are in as well when considering how good Ornate Armor is for you. If you are in a raiding guild, depending on where you are in your progress, many of the Ornate items may not be an upgrade for you due to the upgrades available from the raid mobs your guild is able to kill.

However, for those people who are NOT in raiding guilds, and have no wish to be, Ornate is probablly some of the best armor available to them. Those who are dissapointed from what I have seen in this thread are in raiding guilds it seems to me, so the value will be diminished (if not downright no value) for Ornate. For people like myself, whose guild is a family guild (and unfortunately something akin to 7 active members now), Ornate would be the pinacle of our equipment (especially since I am agnostic hehe).

As for my take, the Ornate isn't bad, it is an upgrade for the most part from Warlord's and Myrmidions, the gloves in my opinion being one of the weakest items, as Kylong Darkmail for the most part are better in my opinion, and from what people who farm Veksar tell me, are not all that rare and fairly easy to get with a group. As is I am too low at the moment to even wear it so it is pretty much moot point :D

[Kellaen]

With ornate, remember not everyone is RZ or Trib diety - favors into things.

[Wychway]

Innoruuk legs well, suck. Ornate would have been what I got if not for Farwater.

[Sulvar]

Well for me playing on PvP server yeah NO DROP is a big big deal. I have ornate helm that I use mostly when xping in dangerous PK prone places too cause my RZ helm is droppable.

That said yeah not everyone worships RZ and the legs are a piece that even if its a minor upgrade from fierce heraldic legs they are still some of the best legs you will see. Even looking at raid loots there aren't too many legs better than ornate until you get to elemental loots I guess.

Also just in my particular case no one on RZ server seems to make fierce heraldic armor. I have never ever seen a piece for sale in the bazaar and I dont know of anyone that has a piece either. I was working on a human smith mule to make myself some a while back, but then they nerfed smithing making it harder to skill up while my mule was around 186 skill or so.

[wandor]

Would I buy a set of ornate? No way, people are crazy what they ask for molds. On the other hand, if you can loot ornate and are not in an EP raiding guild, Kizrak's is damn good armor, particularly for the effort involved.

1. BP rocks. Unless you can get your hands on a Farwater, this is the way to go until you can get either VT, Seru, Rathe, or Time BP.

2. Legs rock unless you can get Farwater or you can wear FH. The other cultural leaves a lot to be desired. Warriors get the shaft on legs so these are pretty damn nice to get.

3. Arms again warriors get the shaft. If you can wear FH, again you are pretty set, but all of us other poor saps get the shaft so these are a great option that should last a long time.

4. Boots are not bad, really the Vengence is the most appealing part, but there are just too many quality options to make these stand out. Boots of the Storm, Boots of the Vindicator, Mithril boots, and FH are either better or at least on par with ornate boots.

5. I think the most maligned piece is the ornate gloves. Yes, Myrmidon's are really nice and easy to get, but I don't know about you guys, but 30hp is not worth the pain in the ass faction I would have to mess with to get them. Not only that, but you are really giving up a lot for those 30hp. The 8sta for anyone under the cap makes up for the 30hp and then some, plus you have 6ac and some resists that IMO makes Kizrak's better than Myrmidon's. I would put these right up there with Velium Encrusted, which I also think are a step above the Myrmidon's. The click is pretty handy to have when you don't have a haste caster around or when you are waiting ofr haste after a battle rez.

6. Bracers are the worst pieces IMO. They are a minor upgrade to the run of the mill cultural, and probably equal to FH bracers. There are also several NO DROP bracers that can be had preVT that are better - Adamantite Wristguard, Ssraeshzaen Honor Guard Bracer, Lifebane Wristplates, and Bracers of the Warlord from the new Skyshrine. Then of course, there is also Crystallized Acid Bracers which blow away anything preVT/Seru and the EPs.

Overall, as a suit this is a great set of armor. Nice effects, even if a few of them are situational and stats that really hold their own. Sure there are pieces that are better, but for the effort required to get ornate molds and the AA you can get while camping them, I don't think you can go wrong with this armor.

[GSW]

Ok, piece by piece eh...

Breastplate - just a little bit behind the very high end bps such as Greater Shadow Platemail and Heavy Yttrium chestplate, and much easier to get then those.

Greaves - Very small upgrade, if i got them i would sell and get something else. FH is better

Vambraces - good upgrade, i use SS arms and plan to make this my next upgrade

Bracers - FH give more hp then this! Only reason they cost 50k is because they give clerics FT2, and clerics are probably the only ones who would find this worth the money

Gauntlets - clicky haste? have Eyepatch of Plunder. Otherwise this isn't a very big upgrade, i use Kylong Darkmail and thinking of getting SS. 90 hp is pretty nice

Boots - I'll stick with FH. A little atk is not worth that much.

Helm - I have SS right now, will get RZ helm soon, so no point getting this. For people not in a raiding guild this may be worth the money.

[Sarelin]

I'm running 300-400hp behind you, and i'm not in an AoW guild, nor have i ever been. Not everyone wants to be in a 50+ member raiding guild which is basically a 2nd job. I think I can probably handle BoT quite nicely.


Actually you're running a little over 400hp behind (be more like 700 if I could ever make a VT raid, damn this job!) and 100ac but your point is well taken that not everyone is guilded. My point was, however, that MOST tanks capable of doing a good job in BoT will be in a guild capable of that.

And honestly, no you don't have to be in a "second job" 50+ man raiding guild to get stuff like that. I regularly run 12 man BoT tower raids (trying to get it down to 6), or one group Paffa. There's plenty of challenging stuff out there for small raids of organised people.

My own guild is a very relaxed one, we raid what we can with whom we have online when it's a good time to to do so. We stopped farming AoW some time ago but by now I imagine we could do AoW with 24 without a problem.



And I'm gonna disagree with a few people who posted since I did previously. I think the legs are worth having since they don't just have more ac and hp, but other stats and resists and a self buff that is useful at times. The BP does have a nice buff and more hp than BP of Eradication but for the money you could get selling one I would take the cash for other things rather than use it over such a relatively easy drop to get.

All that said, I try to think 6-12 months ahead for my upgrades and for most visible slots I would consider Ornate a stopgap between SS/FH and Elemental where it is affordable or dropped into my lap, other than the BP which is a long long way off. I'll keep my BP or hope to get a Great Shadow Platemail or Cursed BP, the rest I would expect to get Elemental drops in 6 months or so, which are just vastly better.

[Haass]

No, i'm 400 UNBUFFED behind you. Your stamina is 40 points higher than mine, which means it's a lot of wasted HP and it boosts your magelo significantly because of pre 255 stamina being worth 6hp/per. Cut that out and it's probably a far lower number. 100ac? Sure, i'll give ya that. Still not bad for what i've got tho.

And I know that there is plenty of content for 1 or 2 groups..i'm doing that content right now. The thing is that NToV, Ssra, VT, and AoW loot are out of reach of most people. I have no doubt I can crack NToV eventually, but it's a long way off. By assuming things like the Zek Helm and like are standard for everyone to get, you're a little more than slightly off base.

And I will disagree again...if you're an RZ warrior, greaves are just not worth keeping. You could dump them for 100k easy to a non RZ warrior and lose virtually nothing. It's the same way you feel about your Eradication BP.

[Spliskin]

Legs, Bp and Arms are some of the best you'll find pre VT. If you can afford em or they drop, use em. I wear SS gaunts but carry ornate gloves... 30% 1hour haste is better than 20% 10 minute haste off eyepatch of plunder, and I'm not interested in camping a mob for 36 hours anymore, thanks anyway.

Helm of Rallos Zek is a superior droppable to ornate helm, as are crystallized acid bracers and boots of the storm for the bracer and boot positions.

Marshall Spliskin
Veeshan

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=533657

[Veldriss]

Having high stamina is completely not a waste. Hitting 305 unbuffed means you can free up a buffslot, and as my guild's MT I never have more than 2 spare buffslots, so eliminating the need for a sta buff is priceless, and maxing your stamina is one of the most sensible things you can do.

But then I am of the opinion buying all your loot in the bazaar is far less fun than earning it yourself by killing the mob which yields it.

[wandor]

Originally posted by Veldriss
Having high stamina is completely not a waste. Hitting 305 unbuffed means you can free up a buffslot, and as my guild's MT I never have more than 2 spare buffslots, so eliminating the need for a sta buff is priceless, and maxing your stamina is one of the most sensible things you can do.I couldn't agree more. Particularly as MT you have to have plenty of room for all kinds of crap, the perpetual need for STA basically reduces your number of buff slots to 14, so getting 305 STA is highly desireable for anyone planning on raid tanking.

Originally posted by Veldriss
But then I am of the opinion buying all your loot in the bazaar is far less fun than earning it yourself by killing the mob which yields it. That is the beauty of ornate armor. There is no excuse for anyone over level 62 not camping their own. Every piece but the BP can be one grouped, most of them rather easily. Even the BP isn't particularly hard, the plate BP mob is the 2nd easiest tower boss to kill and can be 2 grouped if you have competent friends.

[Haass]

Blah blah blah.

Max stamina is one thing. 272/305 is not max, so Sarelin is still getting a stamina buff so he/she/it is STILL wasting HP, which means that we STILL buff out a lot closer than 400. Yes, if I could max stamina too, I would, but I can't, so it's a waste to go anywhere in that 60 point range deliberately.

And don't think i'm some goddamned bazaar bought warrior...I had one of the first smiths pumping out Heraldic on CT, and I supplied alot of Fierce for the server. I worked for my armor just the same. Do I buy gear? Sure. Everyone does, but I've put my time in at Kael and I've put my time in at ToV and in CT, and everywhere else outside of PoP that my gear drops.

[wandor]

Jeez Haass, simmer down. I don't think anyone is calling you a Bazaar warrior.

While it is true that any STA between 305 and 245 is basically wasted due to getting a shammy buff, unless you get a 60 STA upgrade you are going to have to work your way up to 305 in increments. Not only that, not everyone has a pocket shammy so any STA you can get still helps when you cant get a buff or when you have to rely on a lesser STA buff.

Incidently, fully buffed you and Sarelin would be a little over 100hp different since you gain a lot more HP from STA than he does.

[Haass]

/shrug.

Sure looks like Veldriss's comments are directed at me. I also know that you're not gonna go from 245 to 305 stamina in one jump, but that doesn't mean it's not wasted. Right now i'm having a hard time keeping my stamina under 220, so i'll be wasting stamina too in a bit here unless Drus coughs up a fuckin urn. The thing about the stamina effects is that it makes magelo look like you're farther ahead than you really are. With virtue instead of 9/kazad I hit 8069hp I think..which is probably really close to what Serelin hits with the same buffs...so the difference in the magelo's is very misleading. I'll give Serelin 100ac on me, but that's about it in terms of real difference since 100hp doesn't make or break most people.

[Sulvar]

Ok boys put em back in your pants and put the rulers away

[1ludor]

greeves were a small upgrade over heraldic, i wouldnt have paid for them though, its just few ac and 10hp. free upgrade from solro in an xp group tho so i took it.

hopefully anyone can take a look at what they are wearing now and make the determination if its worth it to buy.

[Kitre Halfax]

The only piece I can afford, and even consider getting, are the gauntlets. I would probably put my myrmidon gaunts in the bank, for the (improbable) day that I'll max out my sta, but the haste on those is definitely worth it for me.

Camping 40k (worth of equipment and pp) would be much faster for me than attempting to camp Stormfeather, and failing in the end.

Fierce Heraldic?
The greaves are a decent upgrade, but the rest is marginal.

[Veldriss]

My comment wasn't directed at you actually, Haass, sorry to disappoint.
It was directed at the 17623642634 unoriginal people who make rz worshipping warrior twinks purely to deck them out in cultural which isn't exactly expensive these days.
To get full ornate you have to be either 60+ or have a helluva lot of plat banked. Which generally results in people working for their loot and not just buying it in bazaar.
I apologize if you thought I had directed that at you personally. I had not, but perhaps 10mins after waking up is not my most coherant of hours. I'm sure you killed every mob that dropped all the stuff you're wearing =) I'm not very up to date on other guilds on CT though.

[Tugurok]

All this shows is that heraldic was stupidly overpowered to begin with. As an agnostic ogre, it's always offended me that bazaar twinks (not Haass, who I know has paid his warrior dues for years) get better armor than my hard-won ToV armor. I've sweated it out over dozens of ToV raids gearing up me and my guild, and some twink with 50k gets better gear. Lame!

And I've exped in BoT a ton (65 with 73 aas now -- and I don't even play anymore these days) -- and have won exactly 1 ornate bracer so far. People talk about ornate like it's easy to get. I sure haven't see that.

[Gruda]

I chose Rallos Zek as my diety back in March of 2000 for roleplaying reasons. I made the decision to be on Velious giant factions for roleplaying reasons, even though my guild was all on CoV faction. Because my guild is a family guild, that occasionally raids, as opposed to a raiding guild, our officers have decided that we will not switch, as a guild, to giant faction. Therefore, I will never get any of the Velious quest armors. We can lap HoT, but we don't do it often enough because our guildies "don't like boring farming." We are on the cusp of being able to do Ssraezha, but I doubt we will ever be able to do so, because it requires "boring farming." For the same reason, VT will never be in our future.

Therefore, for each armor slot, I compare the ornate to whatever I am currently wearing, or what I could conceivably acquire with a single group of my friends.

The helm mold was a priority for me, because it was vastly superior to the beserker helm that I was wearing, and because it had an invisible graphic. Fashion > all. I also like the effect, because now my husband won't cast SoE on me when I ask for a SoW and a see invis. Bouncing around makes me seasick.

I'm a girl ogre, so I don't need to measure anything with a ruler. I just know that I look good, and I have fun barshing. And eating halflings.

[Sarelin]

Likewise, it seemed to make sense to me back in October '99 to make my new character worship the God of War!

[Khumak]

I used to rag on Ornate armor but it really is fairly good overall. I have the gloves and the boots. I don't wear the gloves but the clicky haste comes in very handy. I swapped my FH boots for ornate because I consider the extra attack, AC, and resists to more than offset the 5 HP loss. I wouldn't have paid for either of them but if it drops in an xp group I'll wear it. Arms I'd probably just sell because I don't consider the HP regen to be worth it. Legs I'd wear since they're a slight upgrade and my sta isn't quite capped yet. BP would be tempting to hang on to for the buff but I'd probably sell it. I wouldn't wear any of the rest of it.