Taunt and Warrior Aggro

[Struan_Xev]

Lo folks,

I know this is a touchy subject so I'll don my Firesuit now :eek:.

During my levelling in PoP between 54 and 59.76 I've not really noticed a big problem with taunting. It took a little while to learn that mashing taunt straight after slow lands almost invariably never works, but after learning that I can now usually get the mob to turn on me on the 1st taunt, if not the second at most.

I've done a search and havent really seen anything on taunt other than 'its takes you to the top+1'. I think there is perhaps more to it.

From my observations of taunt never working right after slow lands leads me to believe that taunt is 'capped' at adding Hate, and it might also be level dependant.

A 55 war adds max 300hate
A 60 war adds max 400hate (just random numbers to illustrate)

The hate lists decays quickly, so if you attempt to taunt immediately, the hate you've generated from hits + taunt since slow is not enough to put you to the top (failed taunt = no hate added) so the mob doesnt turn.

If you wait 2-3seconds since slow landed then the slow hate has dissipated somewhat, and you have closed the gap enough that the hate taunt will overtake and voila, you are back at the top. I generally watch my hits, if I get a string of hits in after slow, Im pretty confident I'll taunt it first time...if I miss I might wait another second.

This is just observation so far, I have no figures to back this up. But it seems to makes sense. I can go to EC and wait a while and taunt and the mob turns (my taunt adds lots of hate at 60 compared to a level 10 damage) but I cant do the same in PoP (my taunt cant cover the hate gap).

So what does this rambling tell you all?

Probably nothing you didnt already know, but I see warriors bitching that they cant taunt but I dont agree. It might be the fact I'm not fighting lvl65 mobs, or that things are vastly different 61-65 but for those warriors sub 60 in PoP it can be done.

Thoughts?

/shield Struan

[Valnir Lanys]

I think we talked about taunt being top of the hate list on a successful taunt a while back. Might have been 6 months by now, however most people seem to agree that its not numerically based. It could have changed since then, I've been in and out of the community.

[Undafut]

I've stood next to a non-KOS thing and taunted it to attack me.

Sometimes it takes right off, sometimes I have to do it a few times. Sure would be nice if the random number generator was actually random.

[Aveen]

I don't think that anyone ever said that taunt it self was broken. Between your level I didn't see much of a problem either. However, as you progress and move in to pop you will see that it is absolutly necessary to have secure, immediate agro from the very begining of the fight.

Mobs regularly hit for 500 a pop, and for a shaman or an enchanter who has to get that mob slowed, it is certain death if the tank does not get agro back immediatly.

Due to the lack of being fully in control of our agro, warriors have been excluded from a lot of groups in favor of the knight classes who can tank just as well as warriors in an exp group.

This is a little worse than when knights weren't particularly wanted in goups because they had a small ability to solo while warriors have always needed a group.

[weoden]

I think taunt is determined(success or failure) based on level. What level mobs are you tanking versus your level? Are you doing pod courtyard? I think those mobs are lv 56 and if your lv 56 then you might have a difficult time keeping their attention.

[lovax]

taunt isn't limited in how much it can add from my experience. I generally save taunt until i see "blah yawns" then hit it immideatly, and the mob either snaps to me or doesn't, if it doesn't then it will on the 2rd, 3rd, or 4th taunt (probably a few times that it's taken more, random number gen sucks =P).

On raids I've tauted off of a TM who has been beating on the mob for over a minute, or chain stunning it for the same amount of time, and have gotten the mob to spin to me in one taunt push (not all the time obviously, but it does happen, and doesn't seem any harder to make taunt work then from slow agro). If taunt was capped then this couldn't happen, or the cap is so rediclously high that it doesn't matter anyway.

Am level 63, fight only Valor / Storms, and raids. Some of these observations have been made in XP groups when I was 60 and 61 in disease, innovation, nightmares as well as currently (paladin tank mezzing an add) with same result (sometimes 1 taunt it turns to me, other times takes more, basically mob would turn to me as soon as taunt worked once). No EB weaps or anything fancy like that, here's magelo http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=554356

I'm not sure why you say that taunt never works right after slow lands, there have been plenty of times I see "mob yawns" then see the mob turn on shaman, I hit taunt once, and mob spins back to me before it can land any hits on shaman. Obviously i'm not claiming that every time it works that way, but enough that the shaman and I notice it. Maybe it's different for you because of levels or what you're fighting or something.

As a side note, I'm not sure it it was the groups I was in or the mobs I was fighting, but in Valor I have a horrible time holding agro at OC/IC where as in glass lands (EW, WW, etc) it seems like holding agro is trivial.

Anyway, just my observations and 2cp on the topic.

[Dobbo Baggins]

i can taunt pretty well at 59 using shadow heart and sparg spear. had a war in group with 13/19 1hs and FG.

[Craigorr]

lvl 65 and doing upper teir PoP , taunt still works but alot of times it just doesnt raise you enough to get full aggro back even when using a BoC i still can taunt a a mob in PoW get it to snap back to me then lose it again instantly ...i only get solid aggro after about 2 BoC aggro procs

[Solinar]

Someone mentioned a successful taunt being top hate + 2Xlevel.

I have personally measured it to be somewhere over 90 hate in a controlled test, but less than 200.

[Zerar_Povar]

What I noticed about taunt...

With a taunt skill at 225 and level 59,
I could taunt mobs off a resisted or unresisted slow like a champ!

With taunt skill at 230, and level 60+
Taunt works for sh&t. And I could not taunt things off of damn near anyone. Rogues, rangers, monks... you name it were taking agro from me, and having to stop attacking, or FD just for me to get agro back. It was embarassing.

With taunt skill at 230, and level 65 w/ a EB procing weap.
I can hold agro really really well.... so long as BoC procs.
As soon as it proc's I am golden, and agro is kept off of uber rogues with all their offensive AA's... shaman's that like to slow on inc. in xp groups... heal agro is no problem.... so long as BoC proc's. I've been thinking about making a hotkey that tells the group "Enraging blow has proc'd... debuff/slow/nuke all you want now!"

What do you all think?

Zerar

[Dandolo1]

Zerar...

I say make the group suffer though the spell effects just like you do. When they see *so and so's face twists with anger (or the likes)* then feel freen to tash/cripple/slow/stun/sit etc.

Why is it that only the MT should have to wade though that garbage spell casting spam to look for those above spells?? Answer is they shouldn't. I get the same exp as some ranja/necro/sk/wizzard who's paying 1/4 the attention that I do, so make them work a bit harder.

Just my warrior thoughts.

Dan the Man.
lvl 65 Barb Overlord.

[Zerar_Povar]

Dan

I make it easy for myself. I have a sperate chat window, I turn off all the spells etc. except for my group... and then I listen for the distinctive sound of the proc going off, and then I look in the little tiny chat window with the small type, and look for the word "rage" in there, and wha la!

I think I will make that hot key after all... it's so easy to do... might as well... right? :D

I do agree that I shouldn't have to sift through all the spell spam... as a person with NO mana... why should I even care what spells are landing, and what their stinking messages say? But want to make sure that I get a rep for being great in xp groups so I can improve my AA count, which is a really sad 10 right now. I need to get about 30 more before I stop hard core xping, and just make it a "when I feel like it" sort of thing, and get some more trade skills a little higher. (My wrists hate me for saying that... brewing will be the reason for carpel tunnel on my mouse hand)

Now that I think about it, I'll get those 30 or so more, then take some time to trade skill, then get all my offensive ones and Planar Power AA's.... so another... what? 70-80? Good lord... I hope I'm in elementals by then.

[Raunstonecutter]

My slowers apprecate my use of /shield in PoP =) Sure doesn't deal with agro, but with the slow on inc, I can help save the shaman or enchanter once every few minutes he he.

[Whulff McBeast]

the lvl of the mob you are taunting also makes all the difference IMO ... if your a lvl 60 warrior and fighting in Bastion of Thunder .. GOOD LUCK on taunt being successful ... the most important taunt I think is weapon aggro / taunt... get a good combo of weapons with hate proc .. and you will have no problems

[Whulff McBeast]

Oh and to Rauns comment .. u talking about using the /shield command ? if so .. ive noticed that you .. umm .. dont have to use a shield for it to work ...

just my 2cp .. ive mitigated damage w/o the use of a shield during the disc

[TrilanBladefury]

Taunt and aggro management is a serious concern of mine. I have invested in a Snowchipper and a Frostbringer to create some weapon aggro, I keep distance in mind when fighting a mob, I even take the pulls off to the side of the group when pulling to beat on it for 5-10 seconds before bringing it over to the group. I don't pound the taunt button, I pick my spots. First slow or backstab and the mob spins away and makes a dash for the rogue or shammy. This is pretty frustrating especially when you have a mouthy caster who is quick to nuke and quicker to yell about the mob breaking away from me and beating him or her silly.

I am starting to go to PoP for exp since getting a group elsewhere on my server is pretty slow, so I am fighting in Tier 1 planes atm.

The comment about level seems to be accurate, I held aggro pretty consistantly except for the slows last night in a PoN group for some time before we got a SK who then became MT.

Do you guys see any problems, or is it just my imagination and it'll all work out with some levels?

[Valeris]

Relative level of mobs causes the greatest effect on taunt skill check success or failure. Hate the elitism implied but if you want to hold aggro well once taunt pops you up the hate list you really need EB or other Pure hate proccing weapons in tier 2 plus...