Does sony listen?

[Domack]

Simple question and you'd think a very simple answer.

Can anyone actually say if there is any evidence that the devs have ever checked or made comments on the posts on the warrior concerns over the last 9 months.

Not just this board but on any. Like most of you I have posted feedback many times on various things in-game and quite often these things get picked up but so far I haven't heard a peep about non boc wielding, ele armour warrior problems.

[Wilhelmm_Lanys]

Sony will listen very carefully under threats of cancelation of accounts. If we want their attention, this is the only way it's gonna happend. Want proof? See FoH "14 days" petition about plane of time and the reaction it netted. Keep in mind now, thats still only about 100 accounts too.

[Zandorf]

No.

Zan

[CedVicious]

No squared.

[Aveen]

No they don't. Because of that, I will not buy any further expansions. If our issues don't get addressed by the end of the year, my account will be canceled. Not sold or given away so that someone else can pay them, but cancelled. And I will move to another non-SOE game.

Money talks and bullshit walks for SOE. They don't want to listen to our Bull Shit so long as we still give them our money.

[Boofus]

They don't give a shit about there Dev's or the warrior class. All they give a shit about is making $$, and rushing out expansions to make more $$.

[uhrlik]

Oh, and don't forget making money.

[NinjaBurger]

Oh you forgot the big sekret to SOE's agenda!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ CHING CHINGY $$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Steenky]

I think they toned it down a bit to Bling Bling.:cool:

[Phantron]

It is well known that SoE has a secret division where they just look at message boards and other MMORPG all day and try to figure out when you need to put in a patch to counterbalance a new game release or make whiny (insert class) from quitting even though despite having people canceling/quitting enough times to run to the entire EQ playerbase to something like negative 1,000,000, EQ still remains the biggest playerbase MMORPG out there.

The reason why there isn't a 'fix' is because first, the problem isn't even that bad. The itemization of PoTime is probably more damaging to the game and certainly the warrior class than the LFG warrior woes. While you may think you are being marginalized by Knights you still do have more HP and AC since the LFG warriors have the safety of class ornate and possibily elemental armor that are quite superior to equivalent Knight gear. On the other hand, Warriors are the high end are really marginalized by Knights that have nearly identical stats due to PoTime gear which has effects that favors Knights far more than Warriors. While the game does not necessarily revolve around high end warriors, the damage is actually worse at the top than the bottom, so it'd make sense if they fix where it's really messed up first.

Second, to have a fix to a problem like this requires a lot of work and testing. Most of the ideas proposed by players will simply break the game. Also even fairly *safe* changes to a baseline class like the Warrior can have far reaching consequences. For example, a change like say increase warrior aggro innately by 25% on mobs equal or lower level is something anyone can think of and can be implemented very easily (or at least one would hope). This has as few endgame impact as I can think of, at least relative to just about any of the other suggestions I have heard. However, even here, you have to consider questions like does this change make Warrior too attractive compare to a Knight. If you think you have an easy fix to the warrior aggro problems then you really don't understand the problem at all. There is no easy fix to the warrior problem that wouldn't break the game in some way. There's no reason to believe this problem is even a priority, but even if it is, you cannot expect a good solution or at least a simple solution.

[Varatho]

Without a solid foundation, your house of cards is doomed to fall.

[Isk]

/shrug, Time warriors may be marginalized more than BoT warriors, but there are far fewer of the former than the latter. It's hard to say who needs help "first" or "more."

Anyways, I encourage dissatisfied players to do what Aveen's doing, if you're not already. Just don't turn into a Rumblingdeth =P

[Bunnie Burner]

Phantron, wake up.

This is one of the biggest issue ingame atm.
A whole class is in danger.
As well as the other melees struggling.

And what do they do?
completely change the spellbook,
fix the DoT foci,
add in new spells,
make pets cast good spells,
add in new foci,
add in a new command for memming spells,
etc.....

Everquest is a Caster's game. Melees have no place in this game.

Why?

Because it's a lot easier for incompetents to make/change spells.
Changing melees is much too complicated for their skill range.

Come on WoW... come out... quiiiick!


And no, they dont read any of the melee boards. They're always on Graffe and the likes.

[Beornegar]

I have to disagree with you Phantron, the fixes to warriors that have been offered here wouldn't break the game. Giving knights tankability almost as good as a warrior, in tandem with giving them godlike levels of aggro generation broke the game. They need to bring warriors up to par, or just nerf either knight aggro, or knight tankability. Either would work, and neither would break the game. (at least it wouldnt break it anymore than knight aggro lock already has). And Bunnie is dead on the money, this is CasterQuest because writing new spells, or increasing the power of old ones is cake compared to fixing a real, honest to God problem with the game.

[wraq]

I would have to disagree with the PoT thing also. I have an SK and a Pali in my guild with the same or more HP than me and we are all in basicly in the same sets styles of gear since we all raid together. It's just up to what we happen to put in the slot for that day but I am never more then maybe 50hp and 10ac more than what they have. None of us a PoT flagged so it's not just the gear from there and we are also all 65 with maybe 5-10aa's seperating us at any one time.
I really think the $ is going to be the only way Sony will listen. Not sure if I could quit totaly, have thought about it some. I know I will not buy any further expansions though until they get something done though. LDON looks and sounds kewl but I just ain't buying it. Fix the major issues and maybe I would believe they could actually make something new worth me checking out......Peace

[Raaj]

PoTime Itemization is an issue. Agro isn't so much, since most raiding guilds learn to work around it, and because defensive is simply a necessity. However the items available upgrade knights marginally better than they upgrade warriors. Warriors have no upgrades of the same caliber available.

Pre-Elemental Agro is an issue. Itemization isn't so much. People chose knights over warriors in groups because they hold agro better, and don't tank too much worse. This is a problem.

There are two seperate issues here. Lets not have another discussion of one group trying to keep the other down. We're all warriors, we're all out to help each other, cut the bullshit.

And, just as a sidenote before anyone points out that Absor did indeed post here once...He has NOT been back to these forums since June 19th, 2003. So no, he does not read our boards with any consistency.

[Trondir]

Originally posted by Iskandar
/shrug, Time warriors may be marginalized more than BoT warriors, but there are far fewer of the former than the latter. It's hard to say who needs help "first" or "more."

Anyways, I encourage dissatisfied players to do what Aveen's doing, if you're not already. Just don't turn into a Rumblingdeth =P

I guess those without EB weapons need help more than those with :)

[Kaldanm]

Phantron, While I'll agree with about the way a warrior fix could unbalance the game, I must say they had enough time to think about somethink. it's their job, dammit !
now every week we have 23 idea of fix posted in here. there was a poll. Between all of those idea, there might be ONE applicable and useful and wich is not a bandaid like /shield !

also, considering the unbalance we could create, if, for exemple, discipline timer are unhooked :
It would trivialise some content, like many boss encounter you can engage with furious then switch to defensive... I can think of tons of application.

BUT IS IT MORE UNBALANCING THAN 6k NUKES ???

I'll say no. not more than :
- blessing of reverence (lower cast time)
- focus items
- more and more mana regen spells
- more and more hp buffs
- pacify line
- enraging pets
- 8k harm touch
- low casting time AE heals
- stackable rune spells
- frenquently 4-6k nukes
- Suspend companion
- instant cast succor
- divine intervention with UD3
...

sorry, we don't need a balancing. We deserve an UPGRADE.

[Trondir]

You are comparing apples and oranges there Kaldanm. Or are you trying to say warriors do the same damage they did in Kunark ? ;P

We do need upgrades tho :)

[Beornegar]

No, we don't do the same damage we did in Kunark, but our damage didn't get ramped up as much in the expansions after Kunark as caster damage/utility did, so it amounts to about the same damage we did then. It'd all relative. :)

[Steenky]

I just think Kaldanm is pointing out how buisy Rich Waters and the rest of the spellbook staff have been. The melee guy has been cleaning the offices ever since they caught the janitor trying to nerf j-boots.:D


edit: I find it odd that I know the name of the spell guy, but I haven't a clue what the person in charge of melee is called. Is this because there isn't even a position for it? It would explain alot.

[Trondir]

Originally posted by Beornegar
No, we don't do the same damage we did in Kunark, but our damage didn't get ramped up as much in the expansions after Kunark as caster damage/utility did, so it amounts to about the same damage we did then. It'd all relative. :)

let's see.. kunark, the expansion of lammy and jade mace. highest wiz nuke was 1615...
Velious, 13/20 and better everywhere, 12/22 was easily obtainable. biggest wizard nuke was... 1615.
Luclin, well you know yourself, weapons got alot better, highest wizard nuke was 1900(magic, so often not as good as fire/cold) as a rare from ONE mob (THO) and 2100 as a rare from ONE mob (emperor)... so most wizards still had biggest nuke 1615 ! :)

PoP finally readjusted it, DD classes got upgraded nukes after a LONG time of casting the same 2 expansion old crap nukes. I could make a thottgraph if you want

[Aveen]

Trondir, I think you are understating caster nukage to skew the argument. The base damage those nukes might be what you say, however focus effects and the addition of spell crits shortly after luclin went live turned those nukes into 3-4k nukes on a regular basis and 5-6k nukes on a less often basis. Where was that for melee?

[Trondir]

Its called vengeance and aura of battle series Aveen.

Before focus effects (which were actually added late luclin, long after bazaar went live) there was nothing which directly improved the damage a caster did. The only thing a caster could go for was maximizing manapool, but a sunstriké casted by a 150 int wizard did the same damage as a sunstrike casted by a 255 int wizard.

[Varatho]

In Luclin: the biggest wizard nuke could hit for over 20,000 damage.

[Phantron]

Manaburn is very inefficient even when it wasn't capped/nerfed since Luclin fights all last so long that you should be able to use up all your mana anyway, unless you're just using all your mana up at the end of a fight.

[Valeris]

Long fights = bigger manapool - the win

[Bunnie Burner]

Hi, you're completely derailing this post into some irrelevent Wizard poo....

The only thing wizard comparison had to do with,
was that changes to the Warrior class would NOT be overpowering, and are currently underpowered compared to casters.

All casters have gotten incredible aas and focus and FT that allows for incredible power.
The majority of a guild's DPS comes from it's wizards.

So how the hell can upping warrior damage, or giving them new skills etc... be overpowering at all?

It's a FACT that we are underpowered at the moment.
Even SOE admitted to it. They want to change melee dps... but they're too incompetent to do anything about it.
They're amateurs.

[Trondir]

Originally posted by Valeris
Long fights = bigger manapool - the win

ok, on next 10 minute fight send a random wizard in your raid (not the spellshielding one mind you?) a tell when the mob is at 0%, how much mana he has now. Most likely the reply will be something around 80%

So how the hell can upping warrior damage, or giving them new skills etc... be overpowering at all? Who said that? All I was pointing out was that bringing damage increases as a point why we should be improved is fairly flawed, as EVERY single class does more damage now

In Luclin: the biggest wizard nuke could hit for over 20,000 damage.
With /Fellstrike warriors are pure dps machines as well :P

[Haass]

let's see.. kunark, the expansion of lammy and jade mace. highest wiz nuke was 1615...
Velious, 13/20 and better everywhere, 12/22 was easily obtainable. biggest wizard nuke was... 1615.
Luclin, well you know yourself, weapons got alot better, highest wizard nuke was 1900(magic, so often not as good as fire/cold) as a rare from ONE mob (THO) and 2100 as a rare from ONE mob (emperor)... so most wizards still had biggest nuke 1615 !

Your understanding of how this game works is pretty limited. The biggest nuke is not always your best... Ice Spear of Solist > Sunstrike. Ice Spear of Solist came from Velious, as a common as fuck drop off goddamned near everything. So there's your power upgrade for Velious. Luclin brought in the +20% focus effects and the 10% chance to do double damage on a spell via AA's, and i'm sorry, but Vengeance and Aura of battle don't come anywhere near the damage that one little goddamned mage summoned bracer can do, let alone the DPS increase the AA's brought the caster classes.

ok, on next 10 minute fight send a random wizard in your raid (not the spellshielding one mind you?) a tell when the mob is at 0%, how much mana he has now. Most likely the reply will be something around 80%

Pff, maybe on your raids. No wizard on any of my raids are gonna dick around with 20% of their mana for 10 minutes.

With /Fellstrike warriors are pure dps machines as well :P

You're just a fool. 3k damage in 10 seconds with an EXCELLENT 2h and a fuckload of luck /= manaburn.

[Trondir]

Originally posted by Haass
Your understanding of how this game works is pretty limited. The biggest nuke is not always your best... Ice Spear of Solist > Sunstrike. Ice Spear of Solist came from Velious, as a common as fuck drop off goddamned near everything. So there's your power upgrade for Velious. Luclin brought in the +20% focus effects and the 10% chance to do double damage on a spell via AA's, and i'm sorry, but Vengeance and Aura of battle don't come anywhere near the damage that one little goddamned mage summoned bracer can do, let alone the DPS increase the AA's brought the caster classes.
yeah, lets not forget the 13 second recast time on Ice spear that made it a very efficient, yet very LOW dps nuke. Sunstrike still was better for fast damage, if you actually get to choose as a mob in Velious was usually totally resistant to one of the 2 types.
if a velious wizard couldnt sunstrike, his DPS fucking sucked compared to a ragebringer double 500 backstab rogue.


Pff, maybe on your raids. No wizard on any of my raids are gonna dick around with 20% of their mana for 10 minutes.
yeah, on your raids too (unless your guild fucking sucks and your wizards dont stack up 100 mana / tick regen on your raids)
Even chaincasting its pretty much impossible for a wizard to unload all of his mana cause of the insane mana regen and the harvest spells.



You're just a fool. 3k damage in 10 seconds with an EXCELLENT 2h and a fuckload of luck /= manurn.

failed to detect sarcasm, oh well.. Manaburn is just way too situational, and now that its nerfed beyond imagination its fucking useless at any time.
But just for you, after fellstrike you dont have to turn auto attack off for a minute. After manaburn, there wont be coming crap from that wizard for a minute till he fired out his harvests and is gtg again.

It boils down to that those focus items are the very first items that enhance casters other than increasing their manapool, and that was LONG overdue, considering first improvements of damage via gear came with Kunark for us (if you dont count weapon upgrades at all, that is)

[Varatho]

It boils down to that those focus items are the very first items that enhance casters other than increasing their manapool

But what of rend robes and other clicky items?

[Trondir]

Most no longer drop and are an "upgrade" as much as hammers are a dps upgrade to Clerics..

[Haass]

It boils down to that those focus items are the very first items that enhance casters other than increasing their manapool, and that was LONG overdue, considering first improvements of damage via gear came with Kunark for us

What gear did we get that improved our damage in Kunark? AoB came out in Velious and Vengeance crap came out in Luclin.

Long overdue? I don't think so. Look at the power jump most casters take between 50 and 60 just due to the kunark spells they had. The reason casters were useless in velious was because everything was almost totally MR from the get go. My shaman had issues landing slow on fuckin green trash in Skyshrine when it opened, to say nothing of actual mobs you'd want to spend your time killing.

Here's the timeline for ya, just so you know.

Original EQ - Most casters were overpowered compared to melee. Best weapons were 8/24 pre-planes. Necros and mages and chanters could solo goddamned near anything. Clerics with a manastone were unstoppable.

Kunark -- Melee started to gain some power because of class specific armor and better weapons. Most casters gained a ridiculous amount of power thru their 50+ spells...most of which were shittily balanced by VI by being made extremely fuckin rare drops (cough torpor cough). The only reason casters started to decline at all in Kunark was the advent of more completely MR raid mobs.

Velious -- All classes gained a pretty decent chunk of power thru gear in velious. SS armor had effects for all classes and was a decent boost over anything before. Most casters turned completely useless due to the ridiculous resists. WIZARDS STILL FUCKIN KICKED ASS BECAUSE OF PORLO'S FURY AND HSAGRA'S WRATH, so don't give me any shit about sunstrike being the only way a wizard could do damage on a raid.

Luclin -- AA's and focus items. I would hardly call one expansion "Long overdue." Casters got fixed in luclin, and then overpowered after that. Subtlety, Fury, Mastery, the instant class abilities, and then to add insult to injury the goddamned mage summoned focus items that were better than most drops all MORE than compensated for what they had to go thru in velious.

While monks could still solo for AA at a good clip, all other melee classes were semi effective at best. AE Groups were in several zones EVERY SINGLE DAY. Forgive me while I shed a tear for the wizards with 305 AA before PoP opened.

Melee have been on a steady decline in power since the XP nerf that killed our soloing completely. Casters got some loving, and that's fine, they should have had focus effects from day one, but now THEY ARE FINE. Casters dont' need anymore goddamned upgrades. Pure melee need to be re-adjusted in line with those classes because right now if you have a mana bar, you're at least twice as well off than people who don't.

[Trondir]

WIZARDS STILL FUCKIN KICKED ASS BECAUSE OF PORLO'S FURY AND HSAGRA'S WRATH

oopps. forgot about those.
Well, did your BoC had a "INSERT COIN" hole ? Bane spells had.

Original EQ - Most casters were overpowered compared to melee. Best weapons were 8/24 pre-planes. Necros and mages and chanters could solo goddamned near anything. Clerics with a manastone were unstoppable.
Didnt play then I am afraid

Kunark --
50+ spells were only slight improvements for wizards till they got sunstrike, draughts were fast and efficient, but not a "ridiculous" amount better than Conflag or Ice comet

Velious --
Mages were mod rod whores, necros twitch bitches, wizards were a good laugh before the banes got impleted (which was not on initial release, mindya?) and enchanters were buffwhores and charm kings (till that got nerfed, mind ya?)
now when looking on Primal weapons and the masses of resistant mobs there... for example
I CANT EVEN LAND FUCKING -50 RESIST DRAUGHTS ON TUNARE AT 65 !! SHE FUCKING RESISTS IT ALL
Velious = 99% Melee expansion. I am sad I cant give you a damage log in which even paladins outdamage casters, there were dozens of them around though.

[Glatius2]

So melee got a single expansion that really helped them and hurt casters and casters got significantly more than melee in every other expansion? And you're trying to make the point that melee aren't currently behind the eight ball? Who are you trying to kid?

Who gets groups easier, pure melee or pure casters?
Who solos better, pure melee or pure casters?
Who can be replaced by a pet, pure melee or pure casters?

I mean this one is such a no brainer, I find it hard to believe there is even an arguement going on about it. Casters have always been significantly more powerful than pure melee with the exception of the brief time period of velious. And their power advantage has grown by a significant margin just prior to and during PoP. It's pretty irrefutable.

I mean just the ability of charm prior to the nerf to allow pure casters to not only wrack up huge heaping piles of AAXP but to solo mini-boss mobs was just laughable. Yeah, pure casters are weak. I just don't know how they manage to hang on one expansion to the next. Poor guys.

[Haass]

Mages were mod rod whores, necros twitch bitches, wizards were a good laugh before the banes got impleted (which was not on initial release, mindya?) and enchanters were buffwhores and charm kings (till that got nerfed, mind ya?)
now when looking on Primal weapons and the masses of resistant mobs there... for example
I CANT EVEN LAND FUCKING -50 RESIST DRAUGHTS ON TUNARE AT 65 !! SHE FUCKING RESISTS IT ALL
Velious = 99% Melee expansion. I am sad I cant give you a damage log in which even paladins outdamage casters, there were dozens of them around though.

This is only the way it was until they retooled resists during Luclin. The shortcomings of casters during Velious have been COMPLETELY corrected. Yes, it was a valid complaint back in the day, but today it's not. Properly debuffed, everything lands on almost everything in velious, minus a select few mobs....which is A LOT less than what landed on them when it was released.

Well, did your BoC had a "INSERT COIN" hole ? Bane spells had.

It may as well have for what i paid for it.

[Trondir]

Bane spells were not given out at the guildmaster in Felwhite and Neriak either. Bane spells however are nodrop, the BoC isnt even that.

Glatius, the only point is that you shouldnt bring up damage increase by casters as part of their upgrades. Thats what I tried to say, dont interprete more into that.

The other problem is that if they upgrade our agro though, caster DPS will skyrocket up even more as the very only thing that limits caster dps is our agro on raid mobs.

Casters were weak, now they are balanced. Melees are just underbalanced a bit now.

[Haass]

So what the hell dude? we say we're underpowered, you go off on some goddamned wizard tangent, and then when it's all done, you say "Ya, melee are slightly underpowered."

What the hell is the point of arguing with you anyway? Half the time you don't even know what you're arguing about.

[Trondir]

I dont know why there is a point in arguing with me, cause I am right anyways, and I think I know damn well what I talk about, maybe I should act a bit more like Slammer and add horrible spelling and grammar as well ?

I really dont see your point, I made a simple statement and you go off on me like I had said "warriors are perfect in all situations"

[Valeris]

You make Haas look modest Trondir :p

[Bunnie Burner]

Trondir, no one was talking about caster upgrades.
You brought the whole thing up out of thin air.

What started this whole thing was this :

BUT IS IT MORE UNBALANCING THAN 6k NUKES ???

I'll say no. not more than :
- blessing of reverence (lower cast time)
- focus items
- more and more mana regen spells
- more and more hp buffs
- pacify line
- enraging pets
- 8k harm touch
- low casting time AE heals
- stackable rune spells
- frenquently 4-6k nukes
- Suspend companion
- instant cast succor
- divine intervention with UD3


The point was to show how the CURRENT caster power is.
How "overpowered" the casters have become,
and how humble most of the Ideas brought to these forums really are.

We ask for a bit more dps, people say its overpowered.
We ask for a few more skills, OVERPOWERED!!!
New discs?? Nooooo, too overpowered....

well when you look at what is shown above, and what caster get NOW (dont give a shit about last expansions),
it is obvious we can get many upgrades and still be FAR from being overpowered.

There is no point in arguing with you, ya....
not because you're right...
but because you totally missed the point.


And what the hell is the idiotic idea about Fellstrike making us pure dps machines?......
it lasts a couple seconds, hardly enough time to do half decent dps...
and it's never used because then you're stuck over 20mins without being able to use our only purpose tool... defensive.

If we got our discs unhooked, THEN you could consider fellstrike, mightystrike etc... as dps... till then, it's laughable.

[Trondir]

You make Haas look modest Trondir
thanks! in what way?

And what the hell is the idiotic idea about Fellstrike making us pure dps machines?......
it lasts a couple seconds, hardly enough time to do half decent dps...
Sarcastic comment as an answer to manaburn being a 20k damage nuke.

[Valeris]

By your overwhelming ego.

[Kaldanm]

My point when I made that list was to show how current game powers and possibilies were extended /added :

reducing the casting time, summonable focus effect, raising averall DPS, the ability to bypass content with pacify, tons of new mana regen... THIS is trivialising the previous content. North Tov is not hard anymore. On luclin mobs, casters can sustend the DPS they had when they were bursting damage. The ability to suspend a pet (who doesnt aggro anymore btw) allow mages tons of stuff....

I don't ask for more DPS, because DPS is monk and rogue think. if SOE increase our DPS, why would you play a rogue ? a monk ? look at the threads on safehouse talking about ranger DPS...
No, I want tank stuff. I'd like to see some grapple ability (sort of root for 2 seconds), or the DoT taunt Furor talked about, or unhooked disciplines... something that actually give us something to tank BETTER, and not necessary by a mitigation increase.

[Trondir]

By your overwhelming ego.
sarcasm, yet again. The question "why do I argue with you?" is fucking pointless to ask in the first place. Looks like Sarcasm is totally lost on this board if not used with ags

[Haass]

Yes, because sarcasm is SOOOOO easy to understand when it's typed instead of spoken. (that was sarcasm too, in case you wanna bitch about that).

Sarcasm is not "totally lost" on this board, but you should know that tone of words gets lost when you're reading them instead of saying them.

And me asking why I bother arguing with you is simple. Half the time you don't know what you're talking about, and the other half of the time you go way around the end of something off on some ridiculous tangent, only to state the very point you were arguing against 5 or 6 posts later. You really make no sense when you spend half the thread bitching about how much caster deserved all the upgrades they got and then you go right back and say "Ya, but melees are overpowered" basically agreeing with everyone you were arguing with.

[Trondir]

Ya, because you were seeing something in my posts I never said.
And oh yeah, if someone says "manaburn = 20k nuke" and I post "fellstrike is uber DPS " under that quote, you got to be fairly dumb not to see the sarcasm at all.
I also know what I am talking about, you just try to insult me it seems. Just quote it and tell me how I am wrong there, I love to learn something new after all.

While you are at it, tell me please how it comes that casters recieve deserved upgrades while warriors CANT be underbalanced at the same time?
As thats exactly the logic you use here. I said casters got deserved upgrades AND I said melees now need upgrades too.. you act as if this would be a paradox

[Glatius2]

Well part of the problem Trondir, old chum, is that Casters not only got upgraded when Melee didn't but that Casters were already more powerful than Melee to begin with. So the rich got richer and the poor stayed poor. That's the core of the arguement.

Hard to justify upgrades to classes that already blew the doors off melee under most any circumstances. But I'm sure you'll find a way.

[Trondir]

Well, do we even know what upgrades melees get in LDoN yet?

[Aeka]

Well we can already see most of the spell parameters for new spells in LDoN. I'm not saying there aren't any upgrades for melee but I don't see anything forthcoming besides a vague "we are looking into it."

[Kaesorn]

Melees get those nifty little augmentations!

Woopie!

/sarcasm off

[Buun Sofsteel]

Class Balance

We're still planning to take a look at improving the damage capabilities of melee classes, as they've fallen behind their magic-using counterparts at the very high end of the game. Finding the proper solutions for this situation will take some time. Some options being considered are:

Improve melee damage-increasing disciplines

Improve Planes of Power melee weapons

[Kaldanm]

Well, do we even know what upgrades melees get in LDoN yet?

So you think melee players NEED to buy LDoN to get fixed ?

[Glatius2]

So you think melee players NEED to buy LDoN to get fixed?

Actually I'm convinced melee players won't be fixed, even if they buy LDoN.

[Trondir]

Originally posted by Kaldanm
So you think melee players NEED to buy LDoN to get fixed ?

I think there is no need to discuss this as we are playing a SOE game after all. Yes, you NEED. Get over it, thats how SOE works.

[Bunnie Burner]

No, LDoN wiill have ZERO fix to melees, and niether will the next expansion.

What melees get with LDoN is "new weapons".. period.
Cause SOE are a bunch of rearded skillless imbecils.

I swear, my grandmother good make a better game then SOE.
All soe got right was the "addiction" part, that's it.

Oh well, my fault that I continue playing this big pile of shit called everquest.
cant help it :/

[Kaesorn]

I'm practically convinced too, the only thing upgraded about LDoN for melees will be just more equipment and weapons. Oh, and maybe a small fun item/toy like the crown of deceit or some useless thing like that.

Unless the augmentations can do something really good like add a right-click innate stun/EB proc (ala ranger/shadowknight/paladin proc buffs) to an item, I don't think you'll find much good in that system to help warriors with aggro.