Weapons Redux

[kkrunch]

Braintrust,

First, I apologize for not knowing how to link weps.

Given: Main Tank tanking MMM mobs. Have a 22% BP.
Have the appropriate eb and cs augs available.

Weapons avail.

1. PISC
2. SC
3. TWB
4. Epic 2.0

For main tanking purposes, which would you put in Primary and which in Secondary.

As usual, thanks for your suggestions!

Kk

[Mendler]

I have a hard time believing you dont know the answer to this.

PISC main with EB
2.0 with cs4 and eb off hand

Best tanking combo of the group. SC might win on agro generation but the sheer stats of the 2.0 are with out a doubt the best option.

[Rildoan]

PISC primary w/ EB
2.0 offhand w/ EB + CS4

edit: Mendler you bastard =p

[Ginawa]

i use pisc and 2.0 for raid tanking Pisc and SC for groups i have a crystallos dmg aug in SC

[kkrunch]

I have a hard time believing you dont know the answer to this.

PISC main with EB
2.0 with cs4 and eb off hand

Best tanking combo of the group. SC might win on agro generation but the sheer stats of the 2.0 are with out a doubt the best option.

Heh,

First, thanks for your suggestion. I think it is a little humorous, your first comment. I see folks with the PISC in offhand and I see folks with epic's in the bank.

I have been told that since mob riposte is gone / minimal (with proper aa's) that the fastest wep in primary is best for fast aggro pick up.

Since I have a 22% BP, the benefit of the 18% on the epic is gone. I don't use the clickie as we always have a campfire down.

I am of the opinion that the MT's most important job is getting and holding aggro. I'm not sure, in this case, the epic 2.0 is the best choice any longer.

So, I have presented this as a question and indeed I am interested in points of view.

I really don't think it is as clear cut as you do. I do, however, still value your opinion.

Any other ideas.....suggestions out there?

Ty

Kk

[Mendler]

I never use Yoda's calculator so I weigh it on performance.

SC
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: 1H Slashing Atk Delay: 19
DMG: 31 Dmg Bonus: 18 AC: 50
STR: +25 DEX: +20 STA: +25 WIS: +20 INT: +20 HP: +310 MANA: +300 ENDUR: +300
SV FIRE: +20 SV DISEASE: +20 SV COLD: +20 SV POISON: +25
Required level of 70.
Effect: Chaotic Strike V (Combat, Casting Time: Instant)
WT: 2.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: WAR RNG BRD ROG
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8 (General: Raid)

Epic 2.0
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE INFUSIBLE
Lore Group: Epic Weapons
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Charges: Unlimited
Skill: 1H Slashing Atk Delay: 29
DMG: 46 Dmg Bonus: 11 AC: 70
STR: +25 DEX: +15 STA: +30 CHA: +20 AGI: +20 HP: +370 ENDUR: +320
SV FIRE: +30 SV DISEASE: +25 SV COLD: +30 SV POISON: +30
Shielding: +6% Attack: +20 HP Regen: +2
Required level of 70.
Effect: Kreljnok's Fury (Any Slot/Can Equip, Casting Time: 0.5)
Recast Delay: 300 seconds, Recast Type: 6
Effect: Rage of the Dragorn (Worn, Casting Time: Instant)
Recast Delay: 300 seconds, Recast Type: 6
WT: 2.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: WAR
Race: ALL except ERU HIE
Slot 1, Type 4 (Weapon: General)
Slot 2, Type 8 (General: Raid)


SC's ratio is 1.63 and 2.0 is 1.58. Since the secondary hand swings independantly of the primary the SC would be more dps but not by to much. I have seen Yoda's lists (you're going to have to look for them yourself since you're the one asking for help) that show epic 2.0 higher in agro on every occasion over the SC (offhanded). PISC is a beast and with a 56/22 adjusted agro its second to the crystallos weapon. That will be in your primary.

Using 2.0 over sc in seconday gives you 20 extra ac and thats nothing to shake a stick at. I could grab a weapon in Solteris sometime but losing over 30 ac is not something I look forward to but may have to soon.

Do not under estimate the power of your 2.0 in secondary.

Oh when you see the idiots with their PISC in off hand or SC in offhand and epic in primary, make a list of them and NEVER let them in your guild/group/circle of friends. They probably are friends of Sam and hitch rides on his short bus.

[Elladon]

When taking in to account the "aggro ratio" one must consider the damage bonus.

SC: 31 + 18 / 19 = 2.578
2.0: 46 + 18 / 29 = 2.207
PISC:48 + 8+ 18 / 22 = 3.364

All in the mainhand of course.

I'd offhand PISC to my scimitar for DPS purposes, the aggro generation difference is minimal.

[kkrunch]

When taking in to account the "aggro ratio" one must consider the damage bonus.

SC: 31 + 18 / 19 = 2.578
2.0: 46 + 18 / 29 = 2.207
PISC:48 + 8+ 18 / 22 = 3.364

All in the mainhand of course.

I'd offhand PISC to my scimitar for DPS purposes, the aggro generation difference is minimal.


I'm a little unclear here. Are you saying your DPS setup would be PISC main and Swiftcleave offhand?


Kk

[Elladon]

My last comment was about my own situation, if I was to acquire PISC.

But yeah, I'd use SC offhand with a damage aug in it for dps, and what the others suggested for aggro.

The damage bonus stuff was just to illustrate how superior SC is to epic in the mainhand.

[Mendler]

Correct me if I'm wrong but dmg bonus has never been proven to increase agro. Now it doesn't make sense to me why it wouldn't since its a given on every swing but I have never read where it improves agro.

[Damoncord]

Because if I recall correctly the damage bonus is just added in after the DI part of your damage is calculated. So with a damage bonus of 18 you add 18 to what ever damage is calculated, with almost every 1hander having the same or close it is almost negligible agro.

[Yoda]

Correct me if I'm wrong but dmg bonus has never been proven to increase agro. Now it doesn't make sense to me why it wouldn't since its a given on every swing but I have never read where it improves agro.

in the manhand, the damage bonus has been proven to increase aggro, th'at why fast weapons peform better for aggro in mainhand compared to a slower weapon of the same ratio. sure this difference has less impact now that the weapon's damage are at least three time larger than damage bonus, but in older era (where damage bonus were close to weapon's damage) it sure was a key component of the aggro.

in the offhand it has never been parsed closely. Because this damage bonus comes from AA it is supposed it doesn't affect aggro because every time we asked if this or that AA that affect damage (like sinister strike, strrengthned strike, shield specialist, etc...) have an impact on aggro, every single time the devs answered that they don't.

[Brokkah Narrow]

My last comment was about my own situation, if I was to acquire PISC.


Oi, get in line scimitar boy! :P

To OP - PISC mainhand is a no-brainer for pure aggro. Offhand 2.0 and SC are pretty much identical aggro generation wise so I would take the 2.0 for the extra AC.

[Mendler]

Thanks Yoda, I remember reading something you wrote stating it wasn't proven but didn't know it was just offhand.

[kkrunch]

Thanx for all the good input.

Ya, the PISC in main is a "no brainer" but I didn't want to start with the question half answered.

So...now ...since there is so much good input and knowledgable folks thinking about this.

Throw in a SSSOM from Solteris in the mix.

Primary / Secondary ..??

PISC
Swiftcleave
Epic 2.0
Twisting Whirlwind Blade
SSSOM

Thanks for your suggestions: I really am looking to the rational as much as the configuration. I have learned some interesting stuff about swing mechanics so far in this thread.

K,

[Mophios]

I plan on going PISC main and SSSOM secondary. Mind you that is If/when i get to content and if i can get the darn drops lol PISC isn't going to be hard to obtain i don't think, but the drop rate on SSSOM is abit worse from what i understand :(

[Mendler]

PISC main/ SSSoM Offhand

PISC's are rotting now since every alt in our guild has one. SSSoM? Not so much. We are 0 for a bunch (dont know the exact amount) so we will be taking anything at this point.

[Kudedor]

SC's ratio is 1.63 and 2.0 is 1.58. Since the secondary hand swings independantly of the primary the SC would be more dps. THe 2.0 has a much higher base dmg so the agro would almost be equal I would think.

Nitpicking...
Why, though? What does the base damage have to do with offhand aggro? Unless I am missing something, offhand aggro should be entirely dependant on ratio and proc.

[Brokkah Narrow]

PISC isn't going to be hard to obtain i don't think

2/10 between 11 active warriors...dont count on it.

SSoM = 1/10, SoE can kiss my balls.

[Elladon]

I also express my sentiments of disgust at you bastards with PISC alts :P


I'd mainhand my scimitar over both PISC and SSoM 'cos of the ele damage, but if you have both of these high ele damage weapons then you definitely want PISC mainhand.

[Mendler]

Kudedor sorry I had a brain fart on that one sentence that you bolded. I, for the life of me, cannot remember what the hell I was talking about there. Its just based on ratio nothing more there so ignor that sentence you bolded.

Got to love sleep deprived brains some days or lack of caffeine.

[Yoda]

I would go for SSSoM in primary over PISC and PISC over the SotD... same with offhand probably. Actually, if I had all three of them, I would DPS with the Scimetar.

[Mendler]

PISC/SSSoM
PISC/SotD

DPS
SoTD/PISC
SSSoM/PISC

[Brokkah Narrow]

I would say dps = SoTD+SSSoM, elemental damage is not reliable for dps.

[karamorm]

I got tired of waiting for SSSOM, and ended up grabbing our first SOTD, and our piscs have been on rot for a month or more now, so ive had one for a while. After some bugging from Shake, when we're burning and im not tanking, ill toss SOTD in main, and PISC off, and for aggroe i just switch them around. Using a metal powersource of course.

What do you warriors toss out on burns out curiousity?

Alot of us warriors from bertoxx/shah are doing 2500+ on straight burns like MB and Solt 2 Orc. Saturday on orc i think i hit 3300 something with just 7th and our two discs.