View Full Version : Low Delay DW bad or good?
I am using a 12/18 with 60dd cold proc in main hand and a 13/19 in offhand. Anyone have feedback on this combo?
On paper it looks good but after using it a few times Im not so sure.
04-21-2003, 04:49 PM
do you have your dps, or looking a the chat box and seeing strings of 30-40point hits?
04-21-2003, 11:26 PM
Where is the hate my friend? Althugh the damage/delay on those weapons is nice, if u want to get and maintain aggro u gonna need a weap that procs a bit more hate than a 60dd...
65 Marshal War
04-22-2003, 08:16 AM
what they both said; the dmg/del on both of those weapons are great on paper but if you're not holding aggro for ya than they're not doing too much good for ya desides a lot of DPS.
try to log some fights you do and get some hard numbers on some mobs and see what the numbers tell. but if you're not holding aggro ( 60dd is kind of a bad proc; the wind-worn thingy looks like a nice bard weapon IMO ); than you're going to need a bit of work there with a different weapon.
Yea, the DPS is up there. I can out damage alot of peopel I normaly group with. If I get off an early proc I seem to be ok with agro. But if I dont it seems to take me half the fight to get it. Granted people could do things to help me get and keep agro but expecting that to happen is'nt realistic. My guild is starting to move up the ladder in things we raid and this will hopefuly produce a good hate weapon down the line.
04-23-2003, 05:46 AM
I know this may seem silly but im telling ya, a wavecrasher/frosty combo would own your current weaps in the tuant department, and be a lot cheaper. I used wavecrasher in main and frosty in off all the way up to about 56 and it held great tuant =)
65 Marshal War
edit*** Dps isnt as important later on when u have little chance of outdamaging any class let alone try to keep tuant from a slowing enchie , or a critting wizzard. Proc is the most important thing. Wars are not, never have been, or meant to be a DPS class. They are there to take hits, have the best damage mitigation aa and have best disc (def disc) and highest hps of any other class. I can guarantee u a pally can strip tuant from any war, no matter how well equipped, if he wanted to. Untill verant wakes up and gives us high end weaps with a stun proc equal to the crazy ass aggro a pally can obtain, we will continue to rely on tricks, procs, and other classes playing their class well to hold tuant. Anyway, lol i went off topic, remeber this , hate hate hate hate hate hate, lol dps means little at higher levels.
04-23-2003, 08:38 AM
edit*** Dps isnt as important later on when u have little chance of outdamaging any class let alone try to keep tuant from a slowing enchie , or a critting wizzard. Proc is the most important thing. Wars are not, never have been, or meant to be a DPS class. They are there to take hits, have the best damage mitigation aa and have best disc (def disc) and highest hps of any other class.
If you want to restrict that comment to tanking raid level mobs, then I will agree with you.
As for xp groups, they are about killing mobs. Nearly any class can tank a slowed mob. I don't care if a warrior has 1900AC, 9500 buffed gp. and can hold aggro perfectly through any conditions, if his DPS sucks, I don't want him in my group. I hardly ever find myself using my dual wield aggro weapons anymore. Even though they cause the mob to hit no one but me through the whole fight, they aren't efficient. They lead to slower kills and less xp.
Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a hybrid tank when you are grouped with one. If it is more efficient, then enjoy your faster xp rate and can the machismo. As a warrior, my job is to kill the enemy without letting him kill me or my compatriots. Sometimes I can best accomplish that by doing less damage and spending my resources on making him angry with procs. Much more often, I can best accomplish that by dealing as much damage as possible (short of /disc aggressive) and tanking if that gives me aggro, or letting hybrids tank if they hold aggro and can take the beat.
As an example, I had a group last night with myself(64 war), 2 65pal, 65 ranger, 65bard, and 63 druid. I had the highest DPS in that group btw. We tore up the east wing in BoT for good xp. One of the paladins tanked most of the time. I got in my shots from the backside, and we put the kill on with a quickness. When a named popped, we called in a cleric and I tanked. We offered to let the cleric roll on loots, but of course, there were none. That is a separate gripe, however. The point being, that this group with no cleric, no shaman, no enchanter... was almost twice as fast for killing/xp as the shm/enc/clr/wiz/brd/war group I was in a few hours earlier... too many support classes, too much survivability, not enough DPS.
Procs are great for aggro, no question about it. However, aggro is not the only consideration for playing a good warrior. Resist the urge to simplify our class down to a single attribute. Learn about all our capabilities and how to use them.
04-23-2003, 09:25 AM
"As an example, I had a group last night with myself(64 war), 2 65pal, 65 ranger, 65bard, and 63 druid. I had the highest DPS in that group btw."
That ranger must have been not using his bow at all if a war outdamaged him.
Anyway, the point i am trying to make is in a good, non-ghetto grp, in order for the REAL damage dealing classes to output thier damage well, u NEED to hold tuant with good hate weaps. In order for a rogue to do his best damage backstabbing, or for a wizzard to crit blast more, or a shaman or nec. to dot more, they need to make sure the warrior is maintaining tuant. I am not simplifing anything, we are not a dps class, thats a given, almost all similar level equipped classes can outdamage a war, its the wars job to hold tuant off them so they can dish out more damage. Adding dps to the grp is nice yes, but holding tuant so the people who specialize in dealing damage can do it to thier full extent, is far more important than adden a bit more dps with faster damage/delay weaps that dont have hate procs.
04-23-2003, 09:58 AM
The rangers bow was not top of the line.
they need to make sure the warrior is maintaining tuant.
You are assuming that the warrior will be the most efficient tank. That is not always true.
is far more important than adden a bit more dps with faster damage/delay weaps that dont have hate procs.
I don't know what your weapons are, or if you parse, but I gain 25-40 DPS by switching from tunare whip/primal to TSBS. That is up to 50% more damage.
non-ghetto grp, in order for the REAL damage dealing classes to output thier damage well, u NEED to hold tuant with good hate weaps.
Even in groups where I do tank. I have tried dual wielding my aggro weapons (tunare whip/frostbringer) for an extended period of time (30 min or so). and then used my TSBS for the next 30 min. When I parse the logs, I always find that we killed faster(avg time to kill each mob, by type) and made more xp when I was using the TSBS. It doesn't matter if the rogue has to throttle down 5-10 dps, if I am gaining 25-40 dps, the mob dies faster.
If the people you group with and the weapons/spells you all use produce better results when you use your aggro weapons, then great. Please continue to use them. Just understand that my aggro weapons do not produce superior results in all situations. I have just watched too many phases pass in this game, from str is everything to ac to hp to aggro, etc. I am not saying you believe that, but many younger warriors who read your post will come to those kind of conclusions. There is no one sentence maxim that will guide all equipment decisions. A good warrior has to learn what equipment does and then match that to his playing situation. Be adaptable.
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