What would you rather have?

[Tasso]

Furious Bash IV
or
Furious Taunt IV

would the answer to our aggro problems be a decrease in taunt delay?

saye make a few low level Furious Taunt I warrior only focus armor. then add some higher up for sk's and Pallys but keep the class balance and warrior only the 3-7. Seeing as pallys and sk's dont need help with aggro but we do.

haow about retro-fitting some of the thurg/hot/kael helms with FT1?

better armor better FT.

donno but that sound simple to me..

They dont have to change the way taunt works
they add a few items to the game that lowers your taunt time and everyone is happy.

then again i could be smoking crack.

[landrain]

how about melee focus items?

quickened taunt? - decrease taunt time

extended range taunt? - increase taunt range

irritating blow? - add hate

range conservation? - ranged attack doesnt use ammo

I am really disappointed that the melee version of FT is Vengance, How can they even think that V compares to FT and its effects? Casters have focus items for just about everything...

[Jordail Tanker]

This is a great idea...make this available at certain levels or make this an aa ability...Shaman get the Canni I II II IV V aa ability...

this is good suggestion :D

[Choppin]

yeah sure... i'd take +aggro focus on armor but,

remember that a ton of armor that warriors use, also other classes use (VT/ssra gear) and they might not want to have those focus effects on them.

/shrug I'd rather see a hate modifier added to Bash/Kick *as well as* adding +aggro on Warlords/Myrmidons/Champions/Berserkers/Kizraks/Raex armor. Or maybe create a new AA skill with the same usage timer as bash/kick, hate modifier increasing with level.

[Bunnie Burner]

I'd love a vast range of melee items.


Stuff like, Irritating Blow that only affect 1hb weapons.
Deep Puncture that only affect piercers.
Clean Cut that only affect slashing weapons.

One of the things that horribly overpowered casters over melees were the focus items.

And I think that all the warrior problems could be easily solved by intelligently designing melee focus items.

Furious Bash was a start.. a crap one... but a start.


We could start a thread with a compendium of possible Focus for melees? :)


example:
-----------------
Frenzied Cut I, II, III, IV, V

heightens the chances of a proc off a Slashing Weapon by 10%, 25%, 45%, 70%, 100%
------------------

Irritating Blow I, II, III

Gives every 1hb weapon a Hate bonus of 10, 25, 50 hate.
-------------------

Soluzek's Devastation I, II, III, IV

All DD oriented procs deal 10%, 25%, 50%, 75% more damage!

-------------------

Stunning Kick I, II, III

Lengthens the stun off a Kick by 1 second, 2 seconds, 3 second


etc etc......................




I would be extremely happy if these were the only changes made for melees :),
as long as they are WELL made and Balanced!... but that might be asking too much :/

[Raaj]

Melee focus items are a good idea, and fit in with the idea that warriors are so dependant on gear. I can see that happening, since Furious Bash is already put in, albeit broken.

If they added a quickened taunt though it might also be useful to add some aggregate value to a taunt. A successful taunt could be Max agro+50, a failed taunt just the 50 hate.

[Superchum]

"remember that a ton of armor that warriors use, also other classes use (VT/ssra gear) and they might not want to have those focus effects on them."

Then perhaps they ought not to use the item?

You know, Rangers and Paladins can WIELD a Blade of War. Doesn't mean they should be running around bidding hard earned DKP's or cybzoring their guild loot officers for a shot at the Blade of War does it?

It's not outside the realm of possibility that some Warrior centric gear actually make it live is it?

:-)

[Tasso]

Good to see that some people think its a good idea.

but I am a firm beliver that the sussess/failure of taunt past lvl 60 is fine.. before that its crap(this would help lower levels as well)

a hastened taunt focus effect "furious taunt" should be added.

if you add hate to the taunt you basicly make taunt too powerfull.

personally if the shammy goes "what i only threw 4 dots on it and am meleeing it too" he needs to

1. be able to take the hits
2. control his aggro.

[Choppin]

Then perhaps they ought not to use the item?

You know, Rangers and Paladins can WIELD a Blade of War. Doesn't mean they should be running around bidding hard earned DKP's or cybzoring their guild loot officers for a shot at the Blade of War does it?

It's not outside the realm of possibility that some Warrior centric gear actually make it live is it?

Well actually I meant for SoE going back and adding aggro focus on already existing items that multiple classes can use, is a bad idea... I have 5 VT items that also many other non-warriors in my guild use.

[landrain]

Aye... but for one thing.

Every other class has some form of aggro control to lower their aggro....

Pal - root
SK - FD
Monk- FD
Ranger - jolt
Rogue - evade
Nec - Fd
Wiz - Concussion
Enc - all kinds..
Cleric - root
Shaman - root
Druid - root
Mage pet/root

warrrior.... uhhh arent we the ones supposed to be hit?

[Steenky]

I like the original poster's ideas. This one further down struck me as funny though...

heightens the chances of a proc off a Slashing Weapon by 10%, 25%, 45%, 70%, 100%

At 100% chance to proc wouldn't the weapon proc every single swing? That screams of inbalance to me.

[FarlanderB]

Imagine the aggro of an EB weapon proc'ing every swing. Aye, I would agree that distorts the balance.

[Kiljer]

I like the original poster's ideas. This one further down struck me as funny though...

heightens the chances of a proc off a Slashing Weapon by 10%, 25%, 45%, 70%, 100%

At 100% chance to proc wouldn't the weapon proc every single swing? That screams of inbalance to me.

by "heightens the chances" it means it will proc 100% more. as in, at level 5, if you already proc 100%, then you will proc 200% with the added effect.

twice the procs, not consistent procs.

[Bunnie Burner]

thanks for replying for me kiljer :)


Thing that is great about Focus items,
is it will be a possible fix for ALL melees out there. Not just warriors.

You could have DEaggro focuses too for rogues and monks.
Or Kick focuses for monks, or backstab focuses etc etc....

The possiblities are infinite!!


And I do believe that submitting a whole list of usefull and interesting Focus ideas for melees, will have a FAR greater chance of entering the game, then any other possible idea.

Reason:
It's using an idea that is already ingame, and it's flattering to propose it as a fix for us.


The only problem, would be adding Focus items to all already existant items...
but they have already done it with great success for casters..

Now its our turn :)


And Tasso,
but I am a firm beliver that the sussess/failure of taunt past lvl 60 is fine

As it is now, a warrior can go on with 5 taunts, without getting aggro back from a slow.
That is 30 seconds, aka a whole fight....

A WHOLE fight where you can't get the mob off the shaman,
and we are level 65, veteran warriors with big experience in combat...
yet we can't insult a mob good enough for a whole 30seconds?..

Either Taunt is horrible now... we need a 90% success rate.
OR give us other means of getting the aggro back (and no, high end uber weapons that proc EB like hell don't count).

[Tasso]

As it is now, a warrior can go on with 5 taunts, without getting aggro back from a slow.

hmmm ill have to set up a 2 hotkeys and a channel and do some testing

1. /doability 1
/6 taunting
2. /6 taunt failed

with that ill try to get some solid numbers for the sucess rate.. at this point it is 90% by what i see.

as an example
bot exp group
giant inc with soft aggro (proximity)
shammy assists and malos on incoming
starts casting slow as soon as the gem lights up
slow hits the mob turns on the shammy i hit taunt and its on me 9 times out of 10. solid aggro lock and it never hits the shammy.


now this bring up times you cant taunt somthing off sombody. I think that has somthing to do with the hatelist.

When do i notice i cannot get taunt to work? When the slower
chain casts slow and its resisted, after 2 reists the shammy needs to hold off a sec becasue that 3rd one will get him aggro that I can fail on.

We are all under the understanding that taunt is top of aggro list + 1

but when sombody does somthing insainly stupid (like chain cast 3-4 slows on the mob) this opens up the window for a fail. (we are warriors we can handle 2 64th lvl mobs beating on us unslowed. thats what defensive is for)

I think that fail is due to a hatelist cap. say the max number is 10,000

if you are at 10,000 hate nobody can taunt it off of you because a success would mean 10,001 and that cant be so it fails.

like tanking a mob and you want to switch out defensive warriors. at 2 min into the defensive cycle, a non aoetaunt warrior has to start taunting in order to switch to him by the time 3 min are up(from the few times i have seen it)

The first time i did it i turnd off attack at 2 min 30 sec and the other warrior who did not have aoe taunt barly got it off me. He was taunting a good 60 sec before it would turn to him.

So the hate cap looks like it could be a possibility at that point.

Aoe taunt might reset the hatelist or do somthing else to allow you to get aggro even if sombody is currently at that cap.

But in a normal situation (like my shammy friend who loves casting posion dots because the mobs drop to fast for disease) i can see that taunt working 99% of the time..

turns on him on the dot tick
hit taunt and its on me
6 sec later it turns on him
hit taunt and its on me
6 sec later it turns on him

its annoying but if my jbow dont proc i see that happening. But i also see taunt working fine.

100% aggro lock with no risk to the group is not what I call fun. Thats boring.

[Hulanta]

What about a focus effect that takes away 50% of the agro established by the other 5 people in your group and applies 10% of that agro onto the person with the focus item?

[Superchum]

"Well actually I meant for SoE going back and adding aggro focus on already existing items that multiple classes can use,"

Ah, my bad. I read that wrong then.

[Bunnie Burner]

Hulanta, such a focus cant exist ;)

I would be way too easy to exploit it. (Have wizards grouped with a warrior, and voila!.. warrior could just go afk, and all the wizards will have their aggro reduced by 50% :/.

[Bellringer_zeb]

This is a pet peeve of mine, and a reason warriors have a heck of a time getting groups over knights. Barring the higher end weapons beyond epics you have a heck of a time with agro. It is easy to lose and hard to regain for the typical warrior.

So far I like some of the ideas in this thread, I would really like to see warriors as THE tanks in the game again, others can do the job if we are not available, but we are primary picks.

*to the trolling knights*
I know you do not like that above statement, pm instead of derailing thread if you feel you have to say something to me about it.