View Full Version : Clarify Rampage?
04-19-2003, 03:29 AM
Ok, ive read allot about rampage from mobs and im trying to get a clear answer here so ill make the question specific.
My raid is about to take on a Mob that rampages (Rumblecrush for example because it apears he rampages more then average)
Monk runs near him and gets agro, fds his guards etc.. pulls him to the raid.
All bard songs are off, no one heals the monk or anything.
Warrior 1 tags RC with an arrow and hits him.
Warrior 2 tags RC with an arrow but misses.
A Bard starts playing songs
Warriors 1 and 2 engage RC.
etc...(fast forward 30 seconds)
Warrior 1 now has the most agro, warrior 2 has the second highest amount. RC rampages, who does he hit assumeing all those folks are in his rampage range?
From what i have read it would either be the monk or warrior 2.
Now, what if warrior 2 had the most agro? Then i think it would be warrior 1 that gets rampaged from what i have read, that or the monk.
Just trying to clear this up, thanks.
04-19-2003, 04:43 AM
Shaman is going to agro, and tank1 is going to have rampage. Once shaman gets slaughtered by rc, it will probably go after the enchanter that tashed it, then perhaps the warrior1 will get agro. The monk that pulled him should be FD (or dead if fd failed), so he shouldn't be too worried about rampage. Ideally the shaman and enc will die (99% of the time that is going to happen), and then tank1 will take over with tank2 on rampage, but a stray nuke or a sitting person can screw up the rampage deal.
In my experience rampage seems to be fairly chaotic, with a number of variables being capable of screwing it up. there hasn't been more than one or two occasions that I can think of when my guild has actually pulled off having second tank on rampage the entire fight.
04-19-2003, 04:56 AM
it the warriors tags while the monk is FD, then warrior 2 should have rampage once warrior 1 has agro.
if the warriors tag while the monk is bringing the mob and not fd, the monk will be the rampage tank.
04-19-2003, 05:47 AM
read near bottom :) M'asked da same question recently.
04-19-2003, 03:25 PM
Thanks for the link, with the new board searching the old one isn't as easily done as i wish. The answer i got out of that is that one of the first 3 on the list (monk, war 1 war 2) will take the rampage damage if they are in range.
As Grendonobb said, the shaman and other debuffers will get agro, but thats not the same thing as rampage.
So the way i see it
Before agro is controlled (RC is on the shaman), the monk will get rampage damage unless he is FD. If the monk is FD then War 1 will get rampage damage. Once War 1 or War 2 get agro (the shammy dies, or taunt does its thing) then rampage goes to the monk unless the monk is FD or scored a memwipe with a previous FD.
So in answer to my own question, When one of the warriors has agro the other will get the rampage unless the monk is NOT fd and did not get a memwipe on an FD. If this is the case then the monk will take rampage.
How does this sound to you guys?
again, sorry for posting when the answer existed, but in my defense, it didn't exist on the new board.
04-19-2003, 03:37 PM
I was under the impression aggro had nothing to do with the rampage list. The rampage list is placement, not amount of hate you generate. Therefore, if the monk stayed down during the fight, the debuffer would have ramps 'cause the tank2 missed with his arrow.
I usually suggest that your Ramp Tank run up and take a couple swings of the mob and stay in range. Then the healers/debuffers are off the list. Call your tank2 in, then the remaining tanks, then the rest of the melee classes. It's tough timing when you're working with a CH rotation on you, but I've never tanked RC yet, so I don't know how he work.
04-19-2003, 03:54 PM
Hit or miss you are added to the aggro and rampage lists.
Aggro has little to do with rampage other then that the person with aggro (takeing the normal melee) will not be takeing the rampage melee.
04-19-2003, 04:19 PM
The rampage list is based on the agro list when the mob rampages the first time; after that it is set untill the mob clears agro. Rampage then hits the highest person on the list that is in range, excluding the person currently with agro. The biggest thing that makes rampage look chaotic is if you have people high on the list moving in and out of the rampage range - when someone moves oor or dies, rampage goes to the next highest person untill the original person moves back into range.
Best way to do Rumblecrush, in regards to rampage, is to have your shaman kite him around untill hes slowed. When RC gets into camp, both the MT and the RT engage at the same time untill he rampages once, then the RT backs off untill the MT has agro (but not out of rampage range).
04-19-2003, 05:47 PM
hrmm.....Hope Monk 1 has a hotkey ready :p
04-19-2003, 07:10 PM
rampage is static, it doesnt change, once someone sets themselves as Rampage, they take it till the mob is dead (dying and zoning dont reset ramp list, though mem blur does). The monk who aggroed first will have ramp as soon as he gets up.
Setting ramp on rumble is rough, your pulling monk generally doesnt get to help in the fight, hes gotta stay FD unless hes geared well enough to take rampage for the whole fight.
We used to pull rumble to zone ... easiest way to do it IMO.
Have Rampage tank stand at end of hallway, with an arrow ready to shoot. when Rumble is in range, have the warrior start shootin arrows, once he gets a hit, monk FD's and the rampage warrior pulls him the rest of the way in to the raid.
MT then draws aggro, Monk stays FD, healing starts on both RT and MT. Once MT has solid aggro, warrior #2 should be rampage (he was the one that aggroed RC first, not necessarily the second on aggro list, just the first to get hard aggro on RC). The monk that pulled has to stay FD, or out of range till hes dead, or the monk will draw rampage.
Make sure the RT stays up is more important than keeping the MT up many times when dealing with ramp mobs. If the MT goes down, the RT DOES NOT take his place, another warrior does, somone not on rampage. The rampage tank should be rampage through the whole fight. If your out of tanks, then have the FD monk get back up, suck up rampage, and have RT take aggro.
If ya dont do this, rampage is most likely gonna bounce through all your healers before another melee takes hits, in the order they aquired aggro (generally, cleric 1, cleric 2, tashing chanter, malo shammy, slow shammy, debuffing druid, OOC bard) usually thats the order people bite the dust once ramp tank goes down.
04-19-2003, 09:14 PM
Hit or miss you are added to the aggro and rampage lists.
I knew a miss added you to aggro, but not rampage. Thanks for the info =)
04-19-2003, 09:28 PM
ok, so is the rampage list set by the order you agroed the mob or is it set depending on how much agro you have when the mob does its first rampage? I ask because both situations are given here.
04-20-2003, 05:01 PM
order you aggro mob, not aggro when he rampages.
04-21-2003, 12:40 AM
Old world rampage is very easy to control once you understand it. The rules are set in stone and are always the same. Every time someone comes up with some "mystery" rampage it turns out that other factors came into play and rampage did indeed work as advertised. These rules apply to all PRE-POP rampage mobs. With the advent of PoP, mobs gained the ability to AE rampage so the rules have changed, but they are still the same for pre-pop mobs.
Rules for rampage:
1. The rampage list is static and is not changed by zoning or death. The only things that will change the rampage list is a successful memblur, camping out, or on rare occassions when FD successfully memblurs.
2. The rampage list is set in the exact order that players get agro.
3. Rampage hits only 1 person each time it triggers. The person taking rampage is subject to a full normal round of attacks. If the mob quads and bashes, 1 round of rampage will be a quad + bash (if bash is up).
4. Rampage NEVER hits the person who has current agro, even if they are #1 on the rampage list. If the top person in rampage range has agro, it will hit the next person on the list that is in range.
5. Rampage has a range and it is different for every mob. Some mobs, the range is smaller than max melee range, other mobs the range is damn near the entire zone.
6. Rampage never his someone who has successfully FD'd. When the person gets back up they will resume their place on the rampage list unless they got lucky and the FD memblured the mob. This is why monks and SKs are great rampage tanks. If they miss a heal, they can FD until a heal lands.
7. Rampage is a proc. Cripple helps reduce the number of rampages a mob does.
The best thing an up and coming guild can do is to learn to manage rampage on a rooted rampaging mob - IV in Akheva is a really great training mob. You can see the rules in action, the results are replicatable.
Keep in mind that these rules only apply to pre-PoP mobs. AE rampage is a whole different beast.
04-21-2003, 01:43 AM
thats what i said.
04-21-2003, 01:17 PM
I coppied and posted this to my guilds boards because i know ez board had a habit of dumping old topics... so heres the topic on rampage from the old boards im sorry i cant remember who posted it but its great info
1. Rampage only hits ONE person. You will see a lot of folks claiming a Rampaging mob can attack more than one player at a time. They are dead wrong. All rampage that exists today in Luclin and all previous expansions attacks only ONE player, period. This is the second most common misconception about rampage. (There are mobs that AE rampage in PoP, but this was written before PoP)
2. Rampage IS a proc. Rampage procs off of the normal attacks made by the mob you are fighting. If that mob isn't hitting anyone, you won't see any rampage messages. Also, because Rampage is a proc, DEX debuffs and other spells that decrease proc rate can indeed lower the rampage rate. Slows also reduce rampage rate because they reduce the rate of the normal attacks that proc rampage in the first place.
3. Rampage NEVER hits the person who is currenlty being attackd by the mob. Your main tank will never be taking rampage damage while he has aggro on the rampaging mob.
4. Rampage is a SINGLE attack. The person who is being hit by rampage will be hit by one of the mob's normal hits. This attack can be blocked, dodged, parried, and riposted normally.
5. Rampage DOES have a range, and that range IS different from the mob's normal melee range. This range differs from mob to mob. Some mobs can hit you with their rampage attacks literally no matter where you are in the zone; they have unlimited rampage range. Other mobs have rampage range that is barely larger than their normal attack range. Rampage range usually is larger than melee range.
6. Rampage does NOT follow line of sight rules. For normal attacks, if the mob can't see you, it can't hit you. Rampage works differently, and it will hit you even if you are hiding behind objects. If you are in range, you will be hit.
7. Rampage DOES NOT key off the main hate list. This is the most common misconception about how Rampage works. Any mob that can rampage has TWO hate lists, not one. The mob itself keys off of the main hate list just as every other mob in the game always has. The second hate list is for Rampage, and it works VERY differently from the normal hate list. Understanding how this second hate list works is the key to managing rampaging mobs.
Here are the rules for how the rampage hate list works. These rules determine where the rampage damage goes.
1. The order of the rampage list is based upon the order in which players gain aggro. As soon as you attack the mob, heal someone who is being attacked by the mob, or do anything else that causes the mob to aggro, you will be placed in the next spot on the rampage list.
2. NOTHING will get you off of the Rampage list except for Memwipe. Period. Feign death MAY get you off the rampage list IF you are lucky enough to score a memwipe when you feign, and we all know that's a crapshoot at best. Even death does NOT ALWAYS remove you from the rampage list; many rampaging mobs will start beating on someone who died to rampage the instant they are resurrected. Rumblecrush is notorious for this particular behaviour, so plan your battle rezzing with care and make sure you rez the dead outside rampage range.
3. Nothing you do will move you up or down the rampage list. Taunt, evade, jolt, and other methods of controlling aggro such as chain snaring, stunning, hate giving and hate taking spells, as well as all weapons with hate generating procs all have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on your position in the rampage list. Chain healing and chain nuking also have absolutely no effect on positions in the rampage list, although they will get you to the top of the main hate list fairly fast.
The list forms in the order the mob aggros people, and it stays in that form, never changing EXCEPT to remove those who have scored memwipes with Feign Death. You CAN clear the list by repeatedly casting memblur and memwipe on the mob you are fighting, BUT remember that this will also clear the main hate list and that can cause all kinds of problems.
Now, things to remember...
Remember, rampage DOES have a range. If you are taking rampage damange and move out of a mob's rampage range, it will start attacking the next person on the rampage list until you move back in range, then it will start beating on you again.
The rampage list is SET IN STONE. This means if you know the order the mob aggroed people, you know exactly the order the rampage attacks will follow. This means you can control it.
If you have Feign Death, and use it, you will NOT take any rampage damage while feigned. When you stand, you will immediately start taking rampage damage again UNLESS you scored a memwipe with Feign Death, in which case you are now at the very bottom of the rampage list. This is, of course, subject to the usual feign death bug... if the mob doesn't buy the feign for whatever reason, you will continue to take rampage damage while Feigned.
Monks usually pull Rampage tank duty, especially if they have Combat Agility 3. The reason for this is that they will get hit by precious few of the rampage attacks due to their unmatched combat avoidance.
The usual strategy...
First, everyone needs to make a hotkey to the effect of "TAKING RAMPAGE DAMAGE NOW" and spam it the instant they start taking rampage damage. Healers need to be ON THE BALL and tracking that message so they can keep whoever it is alive. As long as the person taking rampage damage is alive, in rampage range, and doesn't Feign Death, you have locked rampage attacks down to that single person.
When you engage a rampaging mob, have your main tank get aggro first. Immediately send in all of your Monks and have them attack ONCE only to make sure they get the mob's attention. Note, you MUST make sure your monks attack BEFORE the first heal lands on the tank, or else that healer is going to be the first to take rampage damage and die very quickly. With rooted mobs this is trivially easy to do... just have your main tank hit the mob with an arrow, and then each monk follows suit in exactly the order you want them to take rampage.
Once that is done, engage normally. The monks will spam their enrage hotkeys as they take rampage damage. As long as you have healers keeping up with it, you've got it locked down.
Yes, Clerics, this means you have two main tanks to keep alive. Cope.
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