View Full Version : Mob positioning/pushing?
06-12-2003, 08:31 AM
I group regulary with some friends and lately we have been trying to fine tune our strategies and effectivness.
One issue that is causing us problems is mob positioning/pushing.
The group usually consists of:
60 Warrior (me)
The Ranger does not have EQ/AM3 yet but is working on it.
I really could use any advice on things we should practice/work on to maximize our DPS from both the Rogue and Ranger. Lately we have been pushing mobs all over the place.
06-12-2003, 08:32 AM
Move to the right or left while strafing so that the push is curcular. The final outcome is that you won't push but you'll get dizzy.
06-12-2003, 08:52 AM
I think it depends what weapon you and your partners use.
I remember a good grp in PoN hobgoblins, we had a Paladin as MT, and he was using one of those really fast pokers.
He kept walking backwards, and apparently, quoting from him, piercers dont push well, if at all, hence we were pushing the mob towards him.
06-12-2003, 09:04 AM
I think it depends what weapon you and your partners use.
Our usual weapons are:
Pally: Black Handled Bonebreaker 31/30 2hb
Rogue: Bile Drench(13/22)/Bloodpoint(10/21).
I need to do some research on that Circle Strafing :)
06-12-2003, 09:12 AM
Theres a few ways round it. One way is to have a flip hotkey - to give warning that your gonna flip the mob, then just flip it so it gets pused back the other way.
at the moment, the reason you may be getting pushed is that you have the pally, rogue and ranger on the back and you in the front (assuming your MA). the pally may also be stunning now and again, although cant remeber if their stuns have a knockback effect. from what i know, the GSoT has a knocback component as well, so that may be contributing to the problem.
anyway, one way to balace this out, if you find the mob is being pushed, is to get the pally to swop positions and come to the front with you and then swop back and front where necessary. sure he may lose out a little bit of DPS, but pally dps isnt that great anyway.
However, i woudlnt have thought that pushing should be affecting DPS that much, as long as the ranger/rogue are not going afk and keeping up with the mob, the should still be able to maximise their DPS.
Once your ranger gets AM/EQ, you will find he gets very particular that you keep mobs out of the wall. Best way to prevent this is to set yourself up to receive the mob correctly - make sure your away fromt he wall and the slowers are also away from the wall in case they aget aggro. if you find the mob being pushed towards the wall, get the pally to get in between the mob and the wall to keep him off.
Its really just a question of all the melees having to work together to keep the mob positioned, and not just down to you.
06-12-2003, 09:16 AM
Couple of comments.
If mob positioning is a problem in part to slower pulling aggro, pull the mob right to them so that when you lose agg it won't ping-pong on you.
If Mob is being rammed down your throat, do as someone suggested and bring pally up front.
If Mob is being pushed away from you, put more on his back.
Try having your melee circle the mob, once u figure it out it'll basically stay still.
06-12-2003, 09:56 AM
This is an even bigger problem on raids. Personally, I have never believed in trying to balance attacks and hold the mob perfectly still. For one thing, it's hard to do unless people are constantly switching sides, which lowers your DPS. Secondly, your DPS will be better if everyone except you is hitting from the back.
As MT, assuming you have fairly decent aggro, you can control where the mob is pretty well. Walking backwards in a circle works in some places. On small mobs, I like to just keep stepping to the side so the push goes past me instead of straight into me. If you keep doing this they will push the mob in a small circle around you. Doesn't really work on giant-sized raid mobs but I used to use it a lot on drakes in ToV and was always happy with the results.
Finally, if the mob is quite a ways from where you want it, make sure you have real solid aggro and just run to where you want the mob and sit. If the mob summons, you can back-up, get summoned once, back up again and sit and he won't summon again for 10 seconds or so. More often than not he will charge right over to whack you IF you have good aggro.
I used to use sit to position mobs all the time on raids back on Tarew Marr. I try to do the same now but I am usually grouping with people who are higher-level and better equipped than me so I can rarely get enough aggro to make it work. Once I get some proccing weapons though I will be able to do it again.
You can try to balance your pushing, and if your guild/group is disciplined and paying attention, it's possible. For me personally though, I prefer to have everyone maximize their DPS by hitting from the back and let me manage positioning myself. Doesn't work on every fight, but on a lot of them it does.
06-12-2003, 10:17 AM
ask your rogue buddy what circle strafing is gaylonn; i'm sure he'll know :D
( rogues are infamous at it :D )
also helps too to use an overhead view when positioning a mob; using floor or wall geometry to help "hold the line" per se. one of my friends used to even "mark" out the fight positions by dropping those shattering hammers to use as a guide pre-fight. worked pretty cool actually.
back on terris thule; when we started HoT we were just getting used to pinning mobs rather than walling them; granted it does help to use geometry to help hold a critter down; but once the group starts to really be aware of their surroundings and become more aware of "lost DPS"; pinning a mob is much much easier and will be greatly appreciated when your ranger friend gets EQ/AM3/etc. :D
06-12-2003, 10:54 AM
also if im not mistaken, the dps benefit for attacking from the rear extends for 180 degrees . therefore, there isnt a need to congregate all at the back of the mob. get your friends to space out eg rogue at the back, pally on one side, ranger on the other and you in front. that way you have 4 on more or less equal sides of the mob and that should help.
06-12-2003, 11:06 AM
More than likely you are having problems since you are using a GSoT. It knocks the mobs around a bit and doesn't always seem to be straight back from what I have noticed when you have others attacking from the back.
That weapon generates some good DPS and aggro but much H8 for the knockback.
Brudal the Fat
06-12-2003, 01:01 PM
I use either Windmilling, Balance, or Cornering as position tactics.
Balancing being the hardest but needed sometimes, just very simple really. Have your group spread evenly around the mob. Like you said if they are not afk and paying attention this shouldn't be a hard task.
Windmilling is the most popular one for me. I basicaly stand in one spot turning slightly as the group pushes the mob in a circle around me. I use this when Rangers are in groups everytime.
Cornering/Walling mobs is the easiest way to sure up position but you have rangers bitching and if the geometry is such that you cannot shrink and get your back in the corner you will have the rogue complaining as well that they can't backstab. I use this mostly on raids where controlling or yelling at 40 people to balance, back off, move push south, move push north, yada yada is just too much. Put it in a corner and don't stress it, again assuming you can get your back in the corner and still hit the mob. Otherwise you have everyone attacking front on and everyone complaining.
And the age old Halls of Testing flip method. Let everyone push mob till you are approaching oor for heals, call flip and turn mob. Everyone gets on other side and pushes back till you flip again, back and forth. I don't like doing that though because again, Rangers can't bow the mob.
Up to you and your group/raid really but with a small amount of thought from everyone you can control a mobs position. Its not all in your control though so you need the assistance from others as well as knowing where you should be.
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